Hello and welcome to our GB. May I suggest you take a second to get comfortable, and potentially get yourself a tipple of your favourite...
Following on from ttrw2’s thread about his homemade Brembo conversion here, he’s had lots of interest in a small group buy to enable other people to run the same setup. Having run a successful Group Buy for the GBE alloy water pipes in the past, Rob has asked me to step in on his behalf and host/organise the group buy to allow him to focus on the manufacture of the parts - death by PM and all. If my inbox fills, just be patient.
Suppliers have quoted, and discs come in cheaper at a minimum batch quantity of 22 (11 pairs). Machine-shops (for the brackets) have offered discounts at 20 brackets (10 pairs). So the target is 11 names to trigger the group discount. The kit contains everything you need except a pair of calipers and your choice of pad. There are two options – a plain disc and a grooved disc. Pics further down. We need 11 total to get the discount. Prices are:
*£221 for the plain disc kit* (plus £10 postage)
*£248 for the grooved disc kit* (plus £10 postage)
If we get significantly more interest than 11 pairs, we may be able to negotiate a better price.
Teaser Pic
Please copy and paste this part adding yourself to the list with the kit you'd like (type of disc and either R8/ZR/ZS).
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Once you've added your name to the list, a 10% deposit is needed. This will enable Rob to buy the fixings that are price-fixed until the end of the month. It also indicates you're serious. I will be handling the finances on Rob's behalf so you will be paying me. In the event the Group Buy becomes defunct, deposits can be returned to all subscribed parties.
IMPORTANT: Please, after adding your name to the list, PM me with the following:
- Your name
- Your full address
- Your email address
- Your contact telephone number
- Your intended method of 90% payment (Note: 10% Deposit needs to be bank transfer or Paypal+fees)
- Delivery or Collection
Please note: Bank Transfer is the preferred method of payment. In exceptional circumstances you can pay through Paypal but please agree with me first. Other methods are cash in person, cheque via post, gold bullion but sadly not Mars bars. I don't want to overload my paypal as it could render it out of action until Jan 1st next year.
The more people that sign up the better, as it means a better discount can be negotiated. The supplier's quotes are valid until Feb 26th. We'll aim to finish Group Buy on the 12th (two weeks before, allowing enough time to collect money and make order before the 26th).
This kit will fit ZR/ZS absolutely no problems. We've trial built it on a ZR and ZS hub. The only differences are the caliper is spaced off the bracket by 2mm, requiring different lengths on two of the bolts. Therefore please state the car it's intended for on the list. in the following format:
ttrw2 - 1994 Rover 220 Turbo
What do I get in this Group Buy?
In order to fit these to your Rover, the group buy will supply:
• 2 x caliper brackets (one per side) – machined, drilled, tapped, powder-coated.
• 2 x disc – machined with correct PCD and c/bore.
• 8 x grade 10.9 high-tensile M12 bolts (4 per side)
• 2 x stainless brake banjo (all that's required for your current brake lines to fit)
• 4 x copper washers for brake banjo.
• 8 x stainless washers (to go under each bolt head)
• 4 x shims (enables offset correction between R8 and ZR/ZS/bubble hub)
What do I NOT get in this Group Buy?
You will need to get your own:
• Calipers – Brembo Peugeot 406 ones.
• Pads – for above calipers (lots and lots of choice!)
How much do you reckon it'll all cost?
Potentially, the whole setup for £300:
Either £221 for plain disc kit or £248 for the grooved kit plus your calipers and pads. 2nd hand calipers have been bought for anything between £46/pair and £200/pair recently. Ebay prices seem to be the highest, breakers the lowest. The calipers are £370ish from Peugeot brand new. Don't be put off by calipers requiring an overhaul - i'll be putting a guide up shortly as I did some for my 306, it's really quite easy. Pads cost anything from £32/set for EBC black stuff to £210 for Carbotech XP8s. We recommend using a thread-locker for bolting up the caliper-carrier, something like Loctite 243 which is about £4 from ebay.
£221 (plain kit) plus £46 (v cheap calipers) plus £32 (pads) is £308.
Some Considerations:
Bear in mind the discs are 326mm (just under 13”). You’re likely to need 17” wheels to cover the setup. (Some generous 16’s may fit – I’m thinking along the lines of the Speedline Mistral Roversport Wheels and Team Dynamics Pro Race II). The most important thing is the shape of your spokes, this will determine if you need to run spacers. If you have any doubts, Rob has indicated that he would be more than happy to let you try your wheels over his setup. This will enable you to see if you need to run a small spacer or not. Failing that, try to provide us with an accurate measurement of your spokes relative to the hub face.
Wheels known to fit over them so far are:
- Rob’s 17” OZ Superleggera (ET38)
- My 17” League Tantrums (ET40)
Wheels known to need a spacer:
- MG ZS Mk2 11 Spoke Alloys
If lots of people need spacers Rob can get some machined-up for £20/pair upto 5mm thick, or see here (mitus diy ones)
How/When would I pay?
10% as soon as you've got your name on the list. Remainder on the 12th Feb. Talk to Rob about this if you have any questions. You can pay by Paypal if you wish too, but you must cover the fees.
Why this kit, why Brembo?
Brembo calipers are among the best OE fitment road caliper available. They are used on Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Mercedes - amongst many others. These are light-weight, two-piece aluminium castings that are bolted together. They are fully dust sealed and zero maintanence. These particular ones have been in production for over ten years, so any horror stories of corrosion/seal failure would have been heard of. Rob has run his on road and on track with no problems, and he doesn't drive like a granny...
The 4-piston 406 calipers offer ideal piston sizes (38/42mm) to give the same master-cylinder to piston ratio as a standard R8 214. They are chosen to work perfectly with the 23.8mm master cylinder. This gives a firm pedal with bite right at the top. Pedal length is shorter than a 282mm conversion, but plenty long enough for good modulation. Provided you get the air out of the ABS block YOU WILL hit the windscreen the first time you touch them.
The one piece disc is a compromise to having two-piece bells/rotors, but massively cheaper. The disc is 326mm diameter, very nearly 13”. For something like fast-road/track-day you can run soft, road-orientated pads that give very good initial-bite from cold, but don't overheat due to the very large disc acting as a heat-sink . This also makes disc wear very low.
The disc chosen gives around 5mm clearance to the lower ball-joint, enough so that you won't catch with pattern-part lower arms (a problem with the AP Roversport setup as Scott will testify).
This kit requires ZERO modifications/alterations to your car as it is now. Everything bolts straight-on, and is 100% reversible.
And as for performance, well just ask Rob for his experience and to show you his calcs. For a given pedal-pressure these are more powerful than the Roversport AP setup.
WTF do you know about designing brakes?
Both Rob and I are degree-qualified mechanical engineers. We have over 12 years combined experience designing, analysing and testing components and assemblies for global OEMs. We really, really have done our homework on this - Rob started out with the requirement for it to go on his GSiT track car. He wouldn't fit these unless he was 100% sure they'd be fine under these conditions.
How long will it take? Could I collect? Damn it I want some sweet 4 pots already!
Provided we get the numbers and once everyone has paid (target 26th Feb) Rob will place the order. The discs are approx 10 working days and the brackets 5 days. Everything will be sent to Rob. After a quick check that all is correct, Rob will forward them out, with fitting instructions. Expect them middle of March if all goes to plan. If everyone paid up straight-away on the 12th Feb, you could have them by March.
Can I collect to save on postage?
Absolutely. I work in Rugby by day, live in Peterborough by night. Rob lives in Peterborough too. Failing this, I'm sure we can kick-start the RT delivery network if you don't need them ASAP.
I’m a bit of a novice with cars, I don’t like working with brakes – can you help?
Sure. Talk to Rob about help fitting them. He travels amazing distances for a free beer. He'll put fitting instructions with torque settings in, assembly sequence, etc. They are as easy to fit as 282s.
What about spares in the future? Will I be able to get them?
The only wear item that is percieved to be "not readily available" are the discs.
At anytime in the future we can source this disc direct. One off prices are not known yet though, expect them to be GB prices plus c.15%.
However, as said above, you don't need to run an aggressive pad with these brakes; they work extremely well with road-based pads and don't suffer fade. With road pads disc wear is extremely low - we couldn't measure a difference on his GSi after a trackday at Snetterton, which is a circuit unfriendly to brakes.
There is potentially a future modification to two-piece (bell and rotor) discs in the future (see below). This'll use off-the-shelf rotors, so disc supply will never be an issue.
If you lose a bolt, get in touch - no doubt Rob will have some spares lying around.
Everything else is off-the-shelf; the pads are fitted to everything from Seat Leon Cupra R to Alfa-Romeo GTV6.
Can I just buy individual bits I want from the kit?
You may just buy discs if you have different calipers and wanted to do your own brackets. Put your name on the list with 'discs only' only next to it and still send the 10% deposit.
We will not sell the discs and the brackets for you to source your own bolts/fixings as all his stress calcs are based on known material properties for the bolts. We won't be able to sleep at night with the thought that someone somewhere has built the kit up with bolts made of China's finest cheese. The bolts are being sourced through the same supplier that makes flywheel bolts for F1 engines. (If you want a cure to insomnia, ask Rob about how he calculated the torque settings for the bolts to ensure sufficient pre-cycle yield for minimal post-cycle relaxation..)
Can I just source all this stuff myself and save money?
There are some costs we have incurred that are covered, such as buying a scrap ZS hub for a fitting trial. Remember, Rob set-out to design a kit for his trackcar. It was only when he posted about it on here that he got lots of interest and requests to run a GB. He then realised he would like a second set for his Coupe cheaper, so that's where he wins. I've yet to work out where I win! Both of us have contributed to Rovertech for years and have paid-up through the Trader scheme to help it's maintainence - this kit and the Group Buy has been seen up-close by Admin on here and has their seal of approval. Most of you know both of us, however, if you'd like a character reference check our Feedbacks or ask an "old-hand"!
Anything else for the future?
Rob has designed aluminium bells to work with readily-available 325mm rotors for this kit. However, 325mm rotors are horrendously expensive (try £310 per pair, then you need 24 HT M6 bolts to attach to the bell!). As time goes by the cost will come down. He reckons a GB for two-piece rotors might be do-able in a year or so. His target is £300 for bells, rotors and bolts and it will work directly with this kit.
If this Group Buy is successful, the kits will be for sale indefinitely, but they won't be this cheap as they'll be back to "one-off" prices. This Group Buy is to get costs down!
Will these bad-a$$ Brembo's urinate all over Hi-Specs?
Fo sho.
How long did it take to write this epic post?
Fu*king ages! I'm going for a cuppa.
So, in summation:
*£221 for the plain disc kit* (plus £10 postage)
*£248 for the grooved disc kit* (plus £10 postage)
10% deposit up front, 90% payment to follow before 12th February.
Now, put your name down and go find yourself some calipers if you want something to do!
Thanks
my misstake, thought you would of had a set 
