Fancy Plates - B@$£&%!s

[Tallbloke]

Right people,

As I posted earlier fancy plates screwed up and only charged £3.45 instead of £20ish for a set of plates. They called me yup this morning to tell me they've cancelled my ordered and are refunding my money. I dont want my money I want my plates.....

How do I stand with this. Ok it's only a few quid but it's the princable. I thought if they buggered it up it's there fault.... like in dixons If they advertise a TV at £99 instead of £999 then the can only charge the advertised price.... Their systems told me the final price was £3.45. Now they have cancelled my order. Also they tried to make me a guilty party by saying the script was different to normal... It looks like someone has changed it.... well if the script was wrong enough to tell me the plates are free.... also as some of you know I find it hard enough to turn on a bloddy computer let alone type script... On the do you want to be a hacker thread I could pass level 1

Chris

[Phil]

You've not got a leg to stand on as you blatantly knew that the price was wrong. Its a long time since people were able to force companies into selling things for a price that obviously wasn't correct.

Phil

[MGTurbo]

They are a company making money, if a mistake was made by a computer system but they have corrected it then tough, pay the proper price like everyone else....

[plebmaster]

Gotta be something to do with the Trade Descriptions act or something like that.

Locate your closest CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) and they will be able to help you.

[DanK]

Also, I'm fairly sure the Dixons example is wrong too

The price on a "shelf" or whatever is the suggested price, its the price that comes up at the till that is the important one. Where I work, we'll match the price of the ticket if its not that far out, but its only done as a good will gesture.

[CESSNA185]

Ring them up, wind them up, say you'll go legal on them if they don't deliver the goods!

[andy stewart]

Also, I'm fairly sure the Dixons example is wrong too

The price on a "shelf" or whatever is the suggested price, its the price that comes up at the till that is the important one. Where I work, we'll match the price of the ticket if its not that far out, but its only done as a good will gesture.

Yeah, all Prices on Items and on Shelves are not advertising.. it is "an invitation to treat"

You pick the item up, take it to the till and "offer" to buy it.

The seller then "acepts" the offfer and a Contract is formed...

If they had taken your money already it might be different... but it'd be such hassle trying to do it.. and they'd prob make your plates up wrong or summit!

They aren't that expensive anyway!

(even if it is 10x what you thought you might have gotten away with!!)

HTH

Andy

[_tomcat_]

didnt tescos have to sell a ps2 realy cheap once cause the lable on the shelf was wrong???? wasnt it in papers?

im not sure bout now though but i would have thought that there was summut you could do? surely they havnt got a right to cancle your order without even saying to you sorry its wrong could you pay rest and we can sory it out?

i think its worth looking into.

cheers aj.

[Tallbloke]

Also, I'm fairly sure the Dixons example is wrong too

The price on a "shelf" or whatever is the suggested price, its the price that comes up at the till that is the important one. Where I work, we'll match the price of the ticket if its not that far out, but its only done as a good will gesture.

No the Dixons example is correct. If you advertise something for price A but when you get to the till you get price B. Price A the advertised price is what the good must be sold at.

Chris

[GeraintUk]

Thats an urban myth now i'm afriad.

Sale of contract ONLY occurs when company takes money after they have confirmed the price.
Internet Orders made this a gray area for sometime, but prime example was the Kodak camera last year.

Legally, Kodak were covered when the cameras were being sold for £99 instead of £299 (or something like that)
In the end they supplied them only as a "goodwill gesture".

You have zero chance of getting them legally to honour the price as it can be proven from vendors side that you knew it was obviously an incorrect price.

Just pay the money you expected to in the first place.
You ain't going to get anywhere the other way, unless you fancy spending lots of time and money to go to small claims etc.

[MGTurbo]

Having just got my plates from Fancyplates this morning i'm very happy with the end result...

Gareth

[daz500]

Gerraint is 100% correct. I studied contract law last year and I was surprised about this too... basically, you don't have a leg to stand on. I can look out case law if you still don't believe us.

[andy stewart]

No the Dixons example is correct. If you advertise something for price A but when you get to the till you get price B. Price A the advertised price is what the good must be sold at.

Chris

Shelf Prices / Price tickets aren't advertising...

they are Legally Classed as "invitations to Treat" - this is a legal term.

If it was in the paper for £99 then you wlaked into the store and it ws £300 it'd be different.

But in the shop it's different..

This is why the internet grays the area... cos you are effectively in the shop when you enter the site...

Unles it was clealy an avertisement - ie a pop up... on another site... etc..

or a banner on the other site...

you haven't got a legal leg to stand on.

sorry bud!

[Paul]

Chris

Have they taken the money out of your amount? becuase they can simple just take the product off sale. That what happens if are stock control mess is up at tesco. Then they wait for a ticket saying the right price and put it back on sale. They do not have to sell you any product at any price but if they have taken the money out of your amount i am not sure about that.

Paul

[bigrct]

surely though, you were willing to pay the 20-odd quid in the first place, it's just that it came up as £3-something.

i understand its principle in someway, but why worry about taking something so petty to court and risk losing at the end over the sake of a couple of quid and looking like a right plonker! especially after they add on £100 in court and legal costs, bit more than the twenty quid you could just buy the plates for in the first place.

my tupence worth

rich

[AndBurG]

right.

if goods are advertised for X it doesn't necassarily mean you have to pay X for them.

a shelf label may say 99 for a 999 tv, you are only entitled to it at that price if you pay the 999 without being informed that 99 is the wrong price. The seller has to take some type of action, they can either rectify the pricing on the shelf, or remove the goods from ale, they do not have to sell you the goods for the advertised price.

this is what i do, i deal with this sort of thing all the time.

in this instance however you had payed the lower price, so its a bit of a grey area, but they can do what they have done. Immoral yes..illegal no

Generally as an offer of goodwill companies will allow thew lower price within reason and given that the lower price is not rediculously low

[marko]

Sale of contract ONLY occurs when company takes money after they have confirmed the price.
Internet Orders made this a gray area for sometime, but prime example was the Kodak camera last year.

Legally, Kodak were covered when the cameras were being sold for £99 instead of £299 (or something like that)
In the end they supplied them only as a "goodwill gesture".

Where do you get that from G? Unless there ahs been a change in the law since "Kodak" that is not true. They were certainly covered - all angles of escape weer covered...

Kodak accepted the contract and issued an invoice - THEY SOLD THE GOODS.

The only way they could escape being forced to honour the contract would have been PROVING that the customers KNEW the offer was a mistake. Unfortunately, £100 instead of £300 as a new year "special offer" (labelled as such in bold type), when competitors were selling better kit at around the £200 mark and Kodak's DX3700 sales were poor, was a perfectly plausible selling price.

It was some smart-arse junior lawyer/IT man the cancelled the orders without consulting the law or company bosses, not a properly qualified legal bod.

The real reason Kodak honoured the contract that they entered into was that (1) they didn't have a leg to stand on, legally and (2) a couple of thousand people were mightily peed off and many (including myself) wrote a polite but blunt letter to Kodak inviting them to see me in the small-claims court. Kodak didn't have enough lawyers to fight the court-cases even if they thought they could win. I believe the final say in the matter came when a legal firm invited them to review their submission for a class-action against Kodak. They were mightily f**kign rude, and it was a quit whilst before you're totally ebhind rather than a good-will gesture.

Having had a rant tho:

Fancy plates are okay, even if they isued an invoice/confirmed the order, as £0.00 for the plates is blatantly a mistake and thy're not obliged to honour that. Stick to buying £30 PC chairs and getting free OS maps courtesy of the telegraph!

[GeraintUk]

I was one of the orginal finders of the kodak "offer" as my other hobby is home automation, and the www.automatedhome.co.uk guys found this first and swamped the orders.

As it happened, legally Kodak DID NOT have to honour and this was in national papers etc.
The ONLY reason they did honour was that the publicity was more damaging than the loss of money.

I'm sure the articles on this still exist, but it took many to actually file small claims paperwork to get some action. Just becuase Kodak backed down is not an indication they would of lost in court at all. I beleive that each and every case arriving in court would of been thrown out, but it was not worth the time, money or publicity.
The "only" leg anyone had to stand on, was the fact that it was listed as a "special offer" and as such could try to argue they believed that 66% off retail price was genuine. That was the only area they had a chance.

In the case of the number plates, there is much more knocked off, like in excess of 75% and no mention of "special offer".

Simply put, i stand by you wouldn't stand a chance in small claims, and if kodak had of gone to court, I feel they would of won every single case.

Cheers
G

[Smilz]

I personally think G is right. I work for one of the country's biggest internet mobile phone retailers, and sometimes on the website, mistakes are made. All internet retailers have their Terms and Conditions to cover themselves in such a case.

I know most of our companys t's and c's now, and if you had read the t's and c's on Fancyplates.com when placing your order, you'd have known exactly what your entitled too....

Delivery, Post & Packing
All orders received before 12pm we will try to have dispatched that day. Any order after 12pm will be classed as before 12pm the following day. Weekend orders are classed as before 12pm Monday, Please allow up to five working days for delivery. If you place an especially high-value order we reserve the right to contact you for further confirmation of your delivery details, prior to authorisation. Post and Packing - Customers outside the UK: All export orders are posted using Royal Mails delivery service. Export delivery charges quoted on this site are only intended as a guide. Do not be alarmed if the postage quoted is very high, this may be reduced when our Sales Team calculate the precise charges. Unlike many retail web sites we aim to provide our export customers with the same range of services as our UK & Ireland customers. It is possible to order goods online for delivery to most countries world-wide, however, due to overseas postal delays it is not always possible to work out a precise delivery time.

Payment:

Fancyplates and our secure payment service providers, use the latest technology to protect your credit card information and do not release it to any outside organisation. You can place your orders using our secure encryption (the Internet standard for secure transactions)

Returns Policy

FANCYPLATES! wants you to be happy every time you shop with us. So, We will be happy to give a prompt replacement if the return results either from an error made by us or from a damaged or defective item. However, you must return the damaged or defective product and this must be received by us within 14 days of delivery to you. You will not be charged any additional shipping or handling fees for replacement shipments. To make a return, please give the reason for the return and wrap the package securely. Then send it to the address below: Fancyplates, 308 Crockanboy Road, Omagh, County Tyrone, N.Ireland, BT79 8HA

Complaints

We value our customers' satisfaction very highly. If you have any complaints regarding your Web Order please e-mail our Web Sales Team or phone +44 (0) 2881 648 999

Errors and Omissions

We make every effort to ensure that the information on our site is accurate and up to date. We will promptly correct any errors brought to our attention. If you find an error please contact Our Web Team webmaster@fancplates.com Plate displays are for illustration only, plates may differ from those shown. If in doubt please phone or e-mail our Sales team, who will be pleased to advise. We reserve the right to withdraw any item from sale, at any point prior to dispatch, for whatever reason. No guarantees are given as to the accuracy of the colours.

Disclaimer

Any plates ordered through our fancyplates section are for off-road use only, i.e. track days, shows etc. They are designed for this purpose only and may not fully comply with requirements for use on public roads. We accept no responsibility when using any of the plates from our fancyplates section on public roads. Number plates ordered from our Standard UK Plates section are manufactured to BS AU 145d standard and comply with UK legislation

Copyright:

The design and text of this site is Copyright © Fancyplates. All logos, brands and product names are the property of their respective owners, and are offered as a convenience. Fancyplates are a company separate and distinct from the companies who own the logos on our site. No guarantees are given or implied as to the accuracy of any logo or to the accuracy of the colours used. Before you purchase a fancyplate containing any logo, you must first receive the express permission of the holder of the copyright or trademark of that logo. Purchaser agrees to hold harmless and indemnify fancyplates for any liability incurred as a result of the purchaser's unauthorised use of any material contained in plates, including but not limited to use of logos in violation of any right of the copyright or trademark holder of such logos. Please contact us and we will immediately remove your logo from this site if you do not wish your logo displayed.

I have made the text that applies to your case in bold.

You haven't got a leg to stand on mate. Mistakes happen, and in the case of mistakes happening the company most of the time only have their own T's and C's to rely on. I personally think if they contacted you promptly thats a credit to them. Not all company's would.

[Tallbloke]

Right well that certainally sparked some convo today.

I've reordered them at the "correct" price. So lets see if they actually make them.

As for the reason for asking they had taken the money out of my account, I've got a order conformation etc etc therefore a contract of sale has been "agreed" they have the money and I have a reciept to show that and therefore their end of the deal is to supply the plates. I've asked a friend who is a lawyer he (for me) put it into basics.

If they hadn't taken the money out of your account fine they're within their rights to cancel the order.

However as moneys had been taken, and reciepted for a contract had formed. their non compliance to forfill their end (supplying the plates) is breach of contract.

Chris

[Smilz]

http://www.fancyplates.com/termsconditions.html

[marko]

The "only" leg anyone had to stand on, was the fact that it was listed as a "special offer" and as such could try to argue they believed that 66% off retail price was genuine.

The entire case hignes on this. Oh; and its a textbook case now for every budding lawyer. Consensus, within uni at least, is that unless kodak could prove you found/posted/read "kodak made a mistake, order this camera quick before they find out", then 66% off is reasonable and Kodak loose, customer wins because:

The DX3700s were not selling; becasue they had poor quality lenses, poor flash, horrific response time, horiffic turn-on time, poor battery life and endless problems with faulty batteries/charging circuits and poor reviews. Further - similar quality items from other manufacturers were £200, not £30. In the context of a "special web-only offer" in the "new year"; 50% off the 'market price' for a time-limited offer is entirely plausible. Kodak could try to argue it wasn't, but they'd have a hard job of it!

I would have had to convince a small-claims jdge of this; not Kodak; and they generally rule in favour of innocent punters being taken for a ride. And yes you would have stood a chance - as Kodak do not decide when they get a summons - the court does, and they did not have enough lawyers to fight all small-claims cases simultaneously.

As it happens - we were looking for a digicam in the new-year, and wanted about 3 megapixels and 3x zoom; saw the kodak; ummed and aaahed about it overnight then ordered it the following morning - as even at £100 it wasn't hugely attractive. Having used it for a while, I'll say it really was only worhth £100; lucky not to have been thrown out the window on numerous occasions and I'd have been mightily disappointed if I'd paid £200 for it, let alone £300.

As a result; most web-offers are now issued with 'order confirmations' to say the order has ben placed, then contracts and invoices sent out/agreed upon after a person has packaged/approved the item.

To any budding Kodaks out there - the way you are supposed to deal with situations like this is:

Withdraw the item from sale.
Email all customers apologising for the error, and offering them £100 off of the camera as a goodwill gesture or a free bundle of photopaper/big memory stick with every camera purchased.
98% of customers who were tryign it on go 'oh well' and most don't buy anything. You then take-on the few that try it on.

Personally, I would have gone along with it, advertised it as a "super-special offer", sent out the first 2000 cameras only and offered the other orderes free paper/discount apologising profusely for the lack of stock due to unforseen cirumstances, then run an big advertising/promotional campaign about the once a month for half an hour only super-special offer at the online kodak store - keep checking back for details. Spontenaity, goes with photography and all that. The number of people who'd get fed up checking back and just order the camera full-price would more than pay for the lack of profit on the £100 cameras; hugely good public relations and nobody ever the wiser.

A snotty email telling customers to f**k off (in a couple more words, but not many) is the ideal thing to do if you want negative PR and customers backs up and people taking you on; doesn't take a genius to figure that one out (but more than a kodak lawyer/IT man!)...

EDIT, as smilz has replied: Kodak's terms and conditions allwoed them to refuse to sell you the goods, but not once the order had been processed, contract agreed and invoice issued. The whole thing hinged on the "plausibility" of the offer which is what made it interesting!

Number plates I agree - you tried i on, knowing full well that it was a mistake, and lost. Ah well! But Kodak I actually bleedin' deliberated about before ordering ; and I'll be damend if any man from Kodak will stand up in court and accuse myself and the rest of the family of lying under oath. They could probabyl check IP records or summat and the time the camera was ordered afterward?

[Smilz]

Had monies actually been taken though or authorised?

We authorise payment as soon as orders come through from the web.
Authorising is basically freezing the funds on the account to ensure it is actually available to take. We do this before actually processing any order, due to amount of people we have buying things that dont have the funds to pay for it!

So are you sure they actually physically took payment from you? or did they just freeze it?

Either way its still covered in their t's and c's......

We reserve the right to withdraw any item from sale, at any point prior to dispatch, for whatever reason.

They didn't despatch the item, and therefore they are within their rights.

[Tallbloke]

We reserve the right to withdraw any item from sale, at any point prior to dispatch, for whatever reason.

They didn't despatch the item, and therefore they are within their rights.

True. Anyways tis over really now just gotta wait for my full price plates to come in. As for the money being just frozen or withdrawn... Withdrawn it was removed from my account.

C

[roverspeed]

the dixons example is wrong

the ticketed price is only an invitation to buy, and companies do not have to abide by these prices if the customer is told before any transaction takes place.

This has happened to be quite few times, and the odd customer calls trading standards and they say we;re not in the wrong

Warren.

[weirdjam]

when i was in management in retaili used this example to get people off my case.

"That can of beans says 5p on the label, so why are you trying to charge my 25p?"
"Because it is an error the item will be withdrew from sale ideally for 24hrs but if i change the lebel to the correct one it will be back on sale then."
"but you HAVE to sell me it at 5p its the law"
"well madam let me put it this way, if you offered to sell your 3 year old beemer with a price of £7500 in the window would you sell it to me if the day i saw it for sale the last 0 fell off and is in the car somewhere advertising it at £750 could i then DEMAND you sell me it at £750?"
"eeer no coz its my car"
"yes and at the moment those are my beans"

btw i eploited a web company and bought myself a radeon9600 graphics card at £2.45+vat it was supposed to be £110 I wasnt greedy and bought just the 1, and thought if i get it quality if i dont well then never mind, i was lucky.