Dead mans click, car = FUBAR

amillsuk · Post by **amillsuk** » Mon May 15, 2006 11:48 am

First of all, sorry for posting this in here, im not sure what the hell the problem is, so im not sure which part of the forum to place this in, so if it gets move'd, then

EDIT: its a Rover Coupe, thats had a Twincam Honda engine poked in, and the lambda sensor was not wired up, hense the ECU had a flashing light, but i've been told this shouldnt be a problem? ... Anyway, thought it better i said

Anyway;

Well it all started on wendesday night in a petrol forcourt.

Got me petrol, came back to the car, and just got a dead mans click when turning the ignition to 3, trying to start the car.

I noticied the red rover alarm comming on ( i have a clifford installed, and i thought the rover one was disabled) anyway, went home to get rover keyfob, that wouldnt work, so had to get tow'd.

An auto eletric place took my clifford apart, and said they were sure it wasnt that, also managed to get my rover keyfob working, and we mananged to get the red alarm light off on the dash.. He put power directly to the fuel pump etc, so when i turned the key to igntion 3, the car would choke, but would not spark up and run..

Took it to MGRover, they said they re-synced my Keyfob, , anyway, that STILL didn't work, and they plugged their computer upto my ECU and said they couldnt tell by that wether the ECU was getting the message that i was disabling the immobiliser or not..

So, still in the position were, you turn the key to ignition 2, then try to start the car, and you just get a dead mans click, nothing.. The fuel pump isnt priming, or whatever it does, but i do get dash lights/heaters/radio etc etc...

Does anybody have any ideas at all? im stuck, its already cost me Â£35, and this doesnt include whatever bill i get from Rover

Help me please, advice, hands, anything is appreciated and will be paid for if leads to it working again, i need it working!!!

Help me!!!! please!!!!!

Si · Post by Si » Mon May 15, 2006 11:53 am

Check battery terminals and the main engine earth

grant.archer · Post by **grant.archer** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:25 pm

swap ecu's?

C2K · Post by **C2K** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:32 pm

For mine the alarm LED just needs locking and unlocking of the car. My OE one cuts in every time the battery's been off.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:35 pm

dont forget honda PGMFI relay behind the dash.

the only reason i think that is becuase you say at the petrol station, which is exactly where mine let me down, and for some bizarre reason is where it seems happen most. i know jamie had the same thing in his prelude...

i thought though it only did the fuel pump, but with an after market alarm, its probably wired differently anyway, so could still be the source of the problem...

they fail from loose/dryy/cracked solder joints, easily fixed by removing, dab with soldering iron, all sorted...

amillsuk · Post by **amillsuk** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:36 pm

grant.archer wrote:swap ecu's?

Dont have the other ECU, conversion was done by the previous owner Ben_K, and he has a spare ECU.

EDIT: Cheers Scott, il pass that on

weirdjam · Post by **weirdjam** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:12 pm

yes i had a problem with that relay Scott resoldered it for me. It was apperently if you only go a short distance then turn car off for3-7 mins then restart it worse in the hotter weather.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:16 pm

PGMFi relay is behind the centre console and is the very likely suspect

Hit the console a couple of times to shock the relay, best to remove it and resolder it anyway though

Also - wierd but true, I have seen d16 powered Rovers that will nor start on the key - and after 2 days of looking they have started with a simple tow start. Seen this 3 times now and every time the car absolutely would not start until it was towed - then it was fine afterwards.

Mark

xr4x4 · Post by **xr4x4** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:23 pm

as been said, i was driving one of martins 216gti's, stopped in a petrol station and the bugger wouldnt start..

martin put his hand behind the centre console and started bashing the relays while i tryed to start it..

worked an'all..

amillsuk · Post by **amillsuk** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:09 am

Aye, well Rover were about as much use as a bunch of 5 year olds...

Couldn't be arsed to give my car the time of day, and when i told them it was a Honda engine, they tried arguing and tellig me it was a K Series, and they thought part of the problem could be my HG, so straight away i told them where to get off, and showed them the proof of its honda origin, and if they could get a K series head to fit, they were more than welcome to try, bunch of inflatable dinghy heads...

.. Only consolation is that they have declared it a No Bill, so im going to have to tow it elsewhere now..

So im no closer, even when asking rover to take out the 5AS unit and bypass all the standard security, they looked conffused to bother, id do it myself, but i have no idea how to, grrrrrr

Currently tryig to find mobile car security guys who no about Rover Immob's etc, if all else fails, it will go to the Honda garage, which used to be a Rover garage, but they are a good garage, and claim to be MGRover specialists, so heres to hoping.

..Pushing the car on the street tonight, and can have a look at some basic stuff then..

--------------------------------------------------------------

And thanks for the advice guys, i will certainly try everything this afternoon

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:31 am

Mark wrote:PGMFi relay is behind the centre console and is the very likely suspect

Hit the console a couple of times to shock the relay, best to remove it and resolder it anyway though

Also - wierd but true, I have seen d16 powered Rovers that will nor start on the key - and after 2 days of looking they have started with a simple tow start. Seen this 3 times now and every time the car absolutely would not start until it was towed - then it was fine afterwards.

Mark

I have had a 416 SLi and a 216 GSi which were exactly the same, the 216 GSi even cranked over so easily it sounded like there was no compression! Had to check the cambelt, but it was all OK! Simple tow start down the road and it burst into life. It has never skipped a beat since, there must be a mechanical explanation for this, but I am stuck for an answer, lol.

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:43 am

could it be the igniter?

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:43 am

were these both sohc ones, or dual? are the tappets on the sohc hydraulic like the v6? i think i read somewhere that these can stay open for some reason, proabably causing valves to stay open?

my 216 stood for about 5 months and never failed to start apart from a flat battery...

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:53 am

Both the ones I sorted were SOHC. Mechanical tappets.

BlueRover · Post by **BlueRover** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:18 pm

The fuel relay in my Mk1 800, when operated, unlocks all the doors and sets the alarm siren off. I was going to use it as a covert immobiliser but when I popped the button I realised it wasn't going to just cut off the fuel pump so I never bothered. If the relay had tripped, surely the same thing would happen on most if not all Rovers with this system. I would be looking at the immobilser simply due to the fact that the car seems dead. If it was a mechanical engine problem I would have thought the engine would turn over but just not fire. Perhaps it's just a dirty connection.
On a slightly similar note, my Father had a Hyundai sCoupe (the mk1) for a while and several times it just cut out completely. After a lot of investigation by the dealer an auto electrician discovered that the main circuit board below the dash had a hairline crack right across it and when the heater was operated, the board expanded slightly and broke the circuits. He discovered it simply due to the fact that he had the car running and knocked the board accidentally and the car cut out.

amillsuk · Post by **amillsuk** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:41 pm

Martin wrote: I have had a 416 SLi and a 216 GSi which were exactly the same, the 216 GSi even cranked over so easily it sounded like there was no compression! Had to check the cambelt, but it was all OK! Simple tow start down the road and it burst into life. It has never skipped a beat since, there must be a mechanical explanation for this, but I am stuck for an answer, lol.

my car doesnt even crank, it just clicks..

Post by **IrishRover** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:48 pm

I didn't know about this relay thing before, but if it's just a clicking noise you hear, I would have thought that if it's not what's been mentioned above, the clicking noise would be coming from the starter motor solenoid when there is not enough electrical power to turn it. So I would check the battery with a multimeter that there is 12.x volts from it and if not I would be wondering whether the alternator had been working, especially if jump starting with jump leads or swapping the battery allows the car to start.

Post by **Cableguy** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:58 pm

IrishRover wrote:I didn't know about this relay thing before, but if it's just a clicking noise you hear, I would have thought that if it's not what's been mentioned above, the clicking noise would be coming from the starter motor solenoid when there is not enough electrical power to turn it. So I would check the battery with a multimeter that there is 12.x volts from it and if not I would be wondering whether the alternator had been working, especially if jump starting with jump leads or swapping the battery allows the car to start.

There is a set of three relays that click on third key position too mate.

BlueRover · Post by **BlueRover** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:45 pm

On my '96 800, if the immobilser is operating, the car is just dead when the key turns, no electromechanical operation at all. So if all immobilisers operate in the same way,I doubt if it's the immobiliser. You know it's going to something stupidly simple don't you ?

weirdjam · Post by **weirdjam** » Tue May 16, 2006 2:53 pm

Cableguy wrote:
IrishRover wrote:I didn't know about this relay thing before, but if it's just a clicking noise you hear, I would have thought that if it's not what's been mentioned above, the clicking noise would be coming from the starter motor solenoid when there is not enough electrical power to turn it. So I would check the battery with a multimeter that there is 12.x volts from it and if not I would be wondering whether the alternator had been working, especially if jump starting with jump leads or swapping the battery allows the car to start.
There is a set of three relays that click on third key position too mate.

It does sound like a flat battery as irish said, turn key to start and all you here is clicking no juice. a battery that low when cranking will cause alarm to reactivate when you stop cranking.
hold old is your car? can you take a picture of the interior light for me ideally tak out interior light (2 bolts under light cover) and photo both sides.
It "might" not be 5as alarm but the old infra red type.... if its pre '93

do you have door locks on both doors?
if so try this close all doors and boot and bonnet properly with a fully charged battery lock and unlock lock and unlock car turning key fully tis "should" deactivate alarm.

But clicking doesnt sound like alarm fault.

amillsuk · Post by **amillsuk** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:42 pm

Well, i fixed the flippin thing

No idea how like, i sitook my headunit out ( i don't know why, i just did!!) , took the ecu cover off, jigged some wires about, noticed a small black box with Lucas on the front, i saw the cover as lose, so fixed it back together, turned the key and voila, she roared into action, beautiful as ever, im so happy, i can describe it

I placed the headunit back in, and lone behold, she wouldnt respond, so i unlocked her, locked her, took head unit out, unlocked her, and she worked, i then placed unit in whilst engine was running, and shes been working fine ever since..

I think the headunit. or some wiring has come lose or faulty, but at least i know what the problem is now, etc..

Ima soooo happy

Thank you for ALL your advice, without the advice, id never have bothered to do anything with it, so thank you all, and if ever any of you are around scarborough, look me up, and you have a free pint or gin & tonic, which ever tickles your fancy :smt001 on me

weirdjam · Post by **weirdjam** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:59 pm

Glad you got it sorted

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:06 pm

Sounds like the earth wire on the serio is loose causing it to ground out on the chassis, i had exactly the same with rachs discovery.

BlueRover · Post by **BlueRover** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:45 pm

BlueRover wrote: You know it's going to something stupidly simple don't you ?

I'm not going to say anything else, well not at the moment anyway. Don't you just hate modern car electronics?