Zetec Powered Rover?

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:42 am

Anyone ever done this? Anyone know the work involved in potentially converting a T16 engined Rover to Zetec running gear? I assume mounts would need to be fabricated, but I've heard that the Ford IB5/MTX75 boxes can mate with the T16 block, so I assume vice-versa would also be possible...

Any thoughts?

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:44 am

I heard someting about the T16 inlet manifolds being used on Zetic ebgines, never heard of a zetec rover though

wilky · Post by **wilky** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:58 am

i have a block and a mtx 75 lying around

Null_Byte · Post by **Null_Byte** » Wed May 24, 2006 12:39 pm

The question would have to by why?

Sheaf · Post by **Sheaf** » Wed May 24, 2006 12:56 pm

Null_Byte wrote:The question would have to by why?

That's what I was thinking. When you can get more than enough power from a T16. Also.. dumping the T16 and keeping the gearbox seems a bit mad when it's usually the gearbox that breaks.

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:07 pm

Sheaf wrote:
Null_Byte wrote:The question would have to by why?
That's what I was thinking. When you can get more than enough power from a T16. Also.. dumping the T16 and keeping the gearbox seems a bit mad when it's usually the gearbox that breaks.

You can get WAY more out of a Zetec using standard internals (esepcially the bottom end) than you can from a T16, from what I've seen. Also, all of my expertise is based around Zetec engines; management, head work, etc... Wouldn't know where to start on the T16 lol.

amillsuk · Post by **amillsuk** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:30 pm

Rover styling, Ford running...........

mach1rob · Post by **mach1rob** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:53 pm

Anything is possible with money thrown at it, however, I'd rather throw a bit less of it at making the T16 more reliable for big power, afterall, it's not impossible

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:26 pm

No, but starting with a T16 NASP block like I've got, I'd probably have to do an engine swap with a T16 turbo ANYWAY... if I'm going to do a complete engine swap I'd rather put in something I can work with than something unknown... just need to know if I can mount it effectively in the bay and connect it to the drivetrain

Markt8 · Post by **Markt8** » Wed May 24, 2006 3:26 pm

id rather have rover running, ford styling cheers

Mark

216si · Post by **216si** » Wed May 24, 2006 4:51 pm

get yourself a set of forged pistons for the T16 and then the bottom end is absolutly bullet proof mate, they can then run arround 30psi.

as said i would ditch the gearbox for something stronger if that's what your looking towards and learn your way arround the T16, it's a VERY simple engine tbh

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:29 am

Yeah, but unfortunately you can't really use MegaSquirt on the T16 block... or that's what I've heard, anyway. Which rules out any aftermarket management without spending Â£600. Also, a set of forged pistons will set you back Â£500 as well...

Just doesn't seem worth it, to me. Especially when you consider that a 2.0L Zetec will put out 250BHP in tuned N/A form.

Jonny 5 · Post by **Jonny 5** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:48 am

SO ignoring all the cost of the parts to use a Zetec lump in a Rover and ignoring the parts build to spec such an engine actually getting an engine to NA 250bhp WILL need the aftermarket ECU, UNLIKE a T16 Turbo which will do 250+ on std MEMS with a decent head and turbo, forged piston to make sure its gonna last aswell. We have several cars doing that now on the forum.

What ever you have read on megasquirt sounds a little odd, its DIY, you dont get spoon fed it as its more of a homebrew make it work affair and a T16 is no different from any other 4 banger.

The Ford stuff is on the K series AFAIK?

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Thu May 25, 2006 1:15 am

Doesn't the T16 use siamese porting? MegaSquirt doesn't work on siamese systems, which is the problem.

John W · Post by **John W** » Thu May 25, 2006 7:41 am

BOFH wrote:No, but starting with a T16 NASP block like I've got, I'd probably have to do an engine swap with a T16 turbo ANYWAY...

Nope, turbo and NASP blocks are the same, just need to drill and tap into the block for oil feed for the turbo (unless its a later block which already has this, just blanked off).

Also the heads are the same so you'd just need some turbo cams, so its probably not as bigger job as you possibly thought. Loads of info on the forum about it.

No point in using aftermarket management if you're only aiming for 250bhp. As Jonny said, by the time you've bought all the bits required to convert it run a Zetec, plus all the time involved in fabrication etc might aswell to a T16 turbo.

Jonny 5 · Post by **Jonny 5** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:27 pm

BOFH wrote:Doesn't the T16 use siamese porting? MegaSquirt doesn't work on siamese systems, which is the problem.

No its doesnt, its like any other DOHC lump. So your discrediting a T16 without even knowing one to a detailed extent

I must be missing something here

Maybe the Megasquirt needs more work on the timing side of things for the Rover crank sensor

Post by **SubCat001** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:22 pm

BOFH wrote:Doesn't the T16 use siamese porting? MegaSquirt doesn't work on siamese systems, which is the problem.

I cant see megasquirt having anymore issues than any other EMS with siamesed ported heads.

The T16 is a typical DOHC pentroof 16v head. The only issues with a T series is that you would need to add a trigger wheel, as currently none of the rover arrangements are supported. Dont even need to use edis anymore with V3.

Also a few other things are confusing me. How are you going to build a 250bhp Zetec NASP when Â£500 for forged pistons "isnt worth it". I dont know Zetecs inside out, but from my understanding it will take a dam sight more than Â£500 to get it anywhere near that power. Maybe you can fabricate most of the parts required?? but then I'd have to ask why you'd need to ask any questions?

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:29 pm

SubCat001 wrote:
BOFH wrote:Doesn't the T16 use siamese porting? MegaSquirt doesn't work on siamese systems, which is the problem.
I cant see megasquirt having anymore issues than any other EMS with siamesed ported heads.

The T16 is a typical DOHC pentroof 16v head. The only issues with a T series is that you would need to add a trigger wheel, as currently none of the rover arrangements are supported. Dont even need to use edis anymore with V3.

Also a few other things are confusing me. How are you going to build a 250bhp Zetec NASP when Â£500 for forged pistons "isnt worth it". I dont know Zetecs inside out, but from my understanding it will take a dam sight more than Â£500 to get it anywhere near that power. Maybe you can fabricate most of the parts required?? but then I'd have to ask why you'd need to ask any questions?

The questions are all part of the learning process ;P

Thing is, I've got a lot of friends/associates/colleagues etc who do a lot of Zetec tuning, for road, race, and rally use (some in kit cars, most in "normal" car shells). With the brief exception of a short ownership of a Peugeot 306 Diesel, I've ALWAYS owned Fords, as have my family members and most of my friends. Therefore, I've NEVER seen a T16 in bits before, so I wouldn't even know where to start.

Hence the questions

Oh, and Zetec tuning DOES require a lot of money, unless you know people who do it for a living. I can easily get fast road/race spec cams, pistons, etc, for 2 Litre Zetec blocks, as they're so widely used.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:43 pm

Megasquirt is DIY, you have to do some work

from what i understand , the reason it wont work on a t16 is due to the timing / flywheel ring. The cam sensor isnt much better either as standard.

These are easily overcome problems though. Jim made a cracking cam sensor reluctor ring with a little bit of metal (im sure it much harder than it looked, but the simplicity of the method is what im looking at).

otherwise, there is nothing at all which sets apart a t16 from any other 4 pot engine of similar sorts... Fuel injection systems are much the same between any car to be honest...

Ive seen megasquirt work on a rover v8, and its a fantastic acheivement when its all working.

BlueRover · Post by **BlueRover** » Thu May 25, 2006 3:55 pm

Now if you were producing a 4WD Rover, that would be something else.

Post by **SubCat001** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:21 pm

BOFH wrote: Thing is, I've got a lot of friends/associates/colleagues etc who do a lot of Zetec tuning, for road, race, and rally use (some in kit cars, most in "normal" car shells). With the brief exception of a short ownership of a Peugeot 306 Diesel, I've ALWAYS owned Fords, as have my family members and most of my friends. Therefore, I've NEVER seen a T16 in bits before, so I wouldn't even know where to start.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions, it just seems a rather bizarre conversion, especially in an 800. Problem is no one has tuned the T16 NASP in numbers before so cant really say it isnt tunable.

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Thu May 25, 2006 10:12 pm

Greenman had 180bhp IIRC with cams, head and DTA.
Not bad with standard pistons... NASP!

xr4x4 · Post by **xr4x4** » Thu May 25, 2006 10:20 pm

BOFH.. have you ever been in a Rover turbo or driven one?

daz500 · Post by **daz500** » Thu May 25, 2006 10:21 pm

problem - megasquirt can't cope with the rover flywheel pattern
solution - use an external trigger wheel

Si · Post by Si » Thu May 25, 2006 10:21 pm

What a silly idea

BOFH · Post by **BOFH** » Thu May 25, 2006 11:38 pm

SubCat001 wrote:
BOFH wrote: Thing is, I've got a lot of friends/associates/colleagues etc who do a lot of Zetec tuning, for road, race, and rally use (some in kit cars, most in "normal" car shells). With the brief exception of a short ownership of a Peugeot 306 Diesel, I've ALWAYS owned Fords, as have my family members and most of my friends. Therefore, I've NEVER seen a T16 in bits before, so I wouldn't even know where to start.
There's nothing wrong with asking questions, it just seems a rather bizarre conversion, especially in an 800. Problem is no one has tuned the T16 NASP in numbers before so cant really say it isnt tunable.

You've hit the nail on the head there. It'd be unique

Post by **SubCat001** » Thu May 25, 2006 11:44 pm

BOFH wrote:
SubCat001 wrote:
BOFH wrote: Thing is, I've got a lot of friends/associates/colleagues etc who do a lot of Zetec tuning, for road, race, and rally use (some in kit cars, most in "normal" car shells). With the brief exception of a short ownership of a Peugeot 306 Diesel, I've ALWAYS owned Fords, as have my family members and most of my friends. Therefore, I've NEVER seen a T16 in bits before, so I wouldn't even know where to start.
There's nothing wrong with asking questions, it just seems a rather bizarre conversion, especially in an 800. Problem is no one has tuned the T16 NASP in numbers before so cant really say it isnt tunable.
You've hit the nail on the head there. It'd be unique

It would be.....but for all that effort there are more suited engines that could be fitted like a Rover V8

If you can fit one transversely into a Mini the 800 should have no trouble swallowing it up.