focus st driving sod...

cris220 · Post by **cris220** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:26 am

my t16 rover coupe just got its a s s whupped by my friends shiny new focus st3... how much more power do i need to redress the balance? we wont grow up so i need some advice on making mine faster

the st3 is factory fresh with no mods my car is standard apart from a KN filter, decat and a 2.5" bore cat back, its on mg 17's and a nasp gearbox. (was a temp. measure been on about a year, lol)

whats next on the normal list of mods?
p.s. like the look of those universal forge intercoolers that seem to fit a rover coupe v.nice!
regards
cris

216si · Post by **216si** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:31 am

k&n filter and the nasp box won't help you mate, iirc a std coupe should be able to see off a ST, i know my bubble can and it's hardly lightening

calibrax · Post by **calibrax** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:46 am

ST3 power is 225bhp according to Ford, although I've heard that in reality they can be anything up to 250bhp. So you'll have to do quite a bit of work to get to the same power level.

216si · Post by **216si** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:00 am

as we all know, power aint everything, the st is a heavy beast but it also has lots of torque for once it's up and going

cris220 · Post by **cris220** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:11 am

216si,
do you think the nasp box would slow it down much? i think i noticed a bit of a difference but i hardly drive my coup so i put it down to that.
must admit i just bought the K&N because i had one on my rs turbo and it worked ok brand loyalty and all that so now ill do some more research on filters as they are cheap!!
calibrax,
im hoping the coupe is lighter to offset the extra power of the focus but ive driven it and its very good...deffo more than 225bhp as well imo
thanks guys any more info

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:09 am

Its surprising what you can and cant beat sometimes. I had issues with a Clio williams yesterday and my car is running well. Im hoping it was modded, it sounded it and i know i can show a CTR a clean pair of heals.
Are you sure your car is producing full power and full boost, if your using the standard BMV it probably isnt.

C2K · Post by **C2K** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:33 am

216si wrote:k&n filter and the nasp box won't help you mate, iirc a std coupe should be able to see off a ST, i know my bubble can and it's hardly lightening

Well an RS version cruised past me on the old slip road shootout, and the ST is much more easily fettled.

As for the Clio, they are surprisingly quick - they can do low 14's on the quarter mile. I know what you mean about thinking it runs well though, and struggling to see things off you'd expect to paste. You never know what the other car has had done though.

(BTW CTR's are easy cannon fodder

)

Null_Byte · Post by **Null_Byte** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:33 am

As has been mentioned, replace the BMV with a GBE boost controller and get a boost guage in there, wind it up to around 11-1psi.

With a nasp box, you will probably find you will start to loose traction once your up to full boost if your launching hard - if you do fit a GBE, just go easy on 1st otherwise you will kill your box.

Post by **MarkCoupe** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:43 am

We just about kept up with one(speeds up to 110ish, he was pulling very slightly) that was obviously having the nuts ragged off it(dangerously at times) in a 161hp FTO V6 yesterday, the Focus handled better than id thought too. If your getting'battered' by one theres something not right with your tomcat, you should at least be able to keep up. Nasp box would help idve thought, better acceleration, although personally i couldnt get 227hp down with all new suspension and bushes, 205/40 GSD3s, with a Ti 3.9FD box, so a nasp must be silly.

rnash2002 · Post by **rnash2002** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:17 am

I had a play with one when i had the gsi,it was like slow motion lol,i couldnt catch him and he couldnt pull away upto about 130mph(on private test track)

turboestate · Post by **turboestate** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:53 am

Volvo power eh russ

Head's for the exit, quickly

rnash2002 · Post by **rnash2002** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:11 pm

turboestate wrote:Volvo power eh russ

Head's for the exit, quickly

lol enough said

shen · Post by **shen** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:33 pm

did you then swap cars and see who was quickest??

though i'm not trying to diminish you manliness the driver is often alot of how fast a car is...it's surprisisng the cars you'll be quicker than if the driver doesnt know how to get the best out of it.

My brother has a clio sport 172 and is nothing like as quick as my tubby and yes we both had a go in each other's .. especially after about 70mph...

also beat a shiny porsche boxter the other week...bet he was a bit gutted

i thought they were quick cars but it would seem not.

imo a focus st shouldnt be devastating to a coupe turbo cos of their weight but i've yet to see one in person.

Nash · Post by **Nash** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:13 pm

ST's are supposed to be around 225bhp as standard but in reality thats probably the minimum they will leave the factory. A Standard T16t is supposed to be 197bhp but in reality most make around 180bhp from what i have seen. Thats alot of bhp to make up even taking into account the weight difference.

shen · Post by **shen** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:18 pm

heres my reccomendation to level the playing field

step 1: book the 220 into a garage for a service and MOT

step 2: go to ebay

step 3: sell the coupe and buy this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

end

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:50 pm

Strip the coupe out leaving just the dash and drivers seat, that will even the odds a bit!
Im not having that Clio keeping up with me so ive just upped the boost to 12PSI from about 10.5 and ive removed the spare wheel. Lets see if that makes any difference tonight (doubt it)!

-Alex- · Post by **-Alex-** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:56 pm

Those bloody ST's have 230+ lb/ft @ something silly like 2000rpm

edit : 225 bhp at 6,100 rpm, and 236 lb ft (320 Nm) at 1,600 rpm

Having been a passenger in one that was only half-throttle at most, I can say it moves pretty effortlessly. He wouldn't open her up though as it was the 1st day he'd had the car

fair enough I say.

benji_ · Post by **benji_** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:35 pm

I didn't think the STs were that special. I've played with a couple and not really thought much of them. The drivers never look happy when there 18+k motor can't keep up with an 3k old rover lol. They normally want another go to see if it was just luck....... To which I normally oblige and prove it wasn't.

I normally seem to have a problem with Audis. And I don't mean those poxy TTs. Their new ones are really quick! And not even the RS series!

C2K · Post by **C2K** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:51 pm

Well yours isn't exactly a standard Turbo is it now. That's about as scientific as eating a cake.

benji_ · Post by **benji_** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:14 pm

lol

Yeah spose. But mines prob not much more bhp if any than an ST. And an ST weighs about 130kgs more than a coupe but has ALOT more torque from earlier in the rev range.

So for a Std coupe it should be a fairly even match.

Thing to remember is when 2 cars are moving, even if 1 of the cars has 50 or 60bhp more than the other it's not going to completely blow the other off the road. It takes an absolutely massive amount of performance to do that, esp to a car that is already relativly quick. The other thing is (and this is espcially true with turbo'd motors) if 1 car comes on boost earlier than the other it is gona look like it is ALOT quicker than the other. Cos as all you turbo boys know (and have all prob experienced when playing or over taking somthing) the cars are nothing untill they come on boost and can easily take a wooping from a lesser car untill they do.

Sheaf · Post by **Sheaf** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:23 pm

Everyone bangs on about the torque early in the rev range, which yeah is impressive... however if two cars are being driven enthausiastically what's that got to do with anything? They're not going to be iro 2000rpm... they'll be being ragged... so it's high rev range power/torque that counts.

benji_ · Post by **benji_** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:29 pm

Good point.

These days 0-60 times mean relativly little as you never get to use them. It's more for bragging rights down at the local. More realisticly it's 40-70+ that count as that's a more realistic driving situation.

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:34 pm

I believe the 200/400 turbo has the ace there because although its slower to 60 than a Cosworth or imprezza its only the same amount behind to 100, so once up to speed its a match.

benji_ · Post by **benji_** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:57 pm

And that's only down to lack of grip as the others are RWD and 4WD

Post by **Punx0r** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:42 pm

-Alex- wrote: 236 lb ft (320 Nm) at 1,600 rpm

That sounds like a diesel, impressive!

Making peak torque (assuming the quoted figure is peak) and peak power at 6100rpm makes for a good power band IMO and will not only give good in-gear acceleration, but better outright performance too

zozzie_9t9 · Post by **zozzie_9t9** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:53 pm

benji_ wrote:Good point.

These days 0-60 times mean relativly little as you never get to use them. It's more for bragging rights down at the local. More realisticly it's 40-70+ that count as that's a more realistic driving situation.

One thing I like about Autocar is that they always publish the 30-70 times, which reveal far more than 0-60 times do. It also provides a figure which is much more 'real world' too.

Ross9 · Post by **Ross9** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:45 am

rovex wrote:I believe the 200/400 turbo has the ace there because although its slower to 60 than a Cosworth or imprezza its only the same amount behind to 100, so once up to speed its a match.

actually, a 220 turbo is booked faster to 100 than a standard 4wd cossie or impreza, and pretty similar to a rwd cossie.

Indeed a 30 or 40 + time interval tells a much better story by far also, I've seen cars notably slower than my Rover, but with much better traction, put in similar or faster times on the strip from a 0mph start, whereas on a 30mph start the Rover would tripe n onions all over them

Ross

shen · Post by **shen** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:54 am

stats for rover coupe turbo...i dont understand how they got 120mph in 4th cos i've never done it but there ya go.

and probably the most official stuff fhttp://www.ford.com/en/innovation/design/perfo ... ocusST.htm
o the focus

one site quotes 50-100 kmh in the focus taking 6.1 seconds

ahh well

as one reporter said...if you want the car without a ford badge it's the 2.5L T5 charged volvo s40 thats tweaked and changed shape...of course they can be found much cheaper than an electric orange focus at the moment

tomcat · Post by **tomcat** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:09 am

shen wrote:

stats for rover coupe turbo...i dont understand how they got 120mph in 4th cos i've never done it but there ya go.

and probably the most official stuff fhttp://www.ford.com/en/innovation/design/perfo ... ocusST.htm
o the focus

one site quotes 50-100 kmh in the focus taking 6.1 seconds
ahh well

Never seen a rover turbo tested that quick before ?

std turbos in my experiance around 6.5sec 0-60mph and 16sec 0-100mph
1/4" in around 15sec flat

With the focus st - It is probably down to it being new factory fresh and yours being not up std as its 10-15years old.
Also weight (passengers will have more or an effect in the rover than the st as the torques much lower)
My old mans megane rs cup is also std but is faster than most mildly modded rover turbos..

shen · Post by **shen** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:33 am

Sorry for this but you might like the full read

tomcat wrote:
shen wrote:

stats for rover coupe turbo...i dont understand how they got 120mph in 4th cos i've never done it but there ya go.

and probably the most official stuff fhttp://www.ford.com/en/innovation/design/perfo ... ocusST.htm
o the focus

one site quotes 50-100 kmh in the focus taking 6.1 seconds
ahh well
Never seen a rover turbo tested that quick before ?

std turbos in my experiance around 6.5sec 0-60mph and 16sec 0-100mph
1/4" in around 15sec flat

With the focus st - It is probably down to it being new factory fresh and yours being not up std as its 10-15years old.
Also weight (passengers will have more or an effect in the rover than the st as the torques much lower)
My old mans megane rs cup is also std but is faster than most mildly modded rover turbos..

ripped from rover 200.net
Just didn't wanna clog up a page with it but...enjoy

Post by **MarkCoupe** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:51 pm

Thats definately not accurate, going by that, full tank with two up itd be running like 13.5 @105 1/4 mile

Roboscot · Post by **Roboscot** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:25 pm

shen wrote:i dont understand how they got 120mph in 4th cos i've never done it but there ya go.

Fastest I've had mine so far is around 125 on a couple of occasions, changing into 5th around 115 but theres still a bit to go before the redline. Some of those figures are a bit iffy though...

benji_ · Post by **benji_** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:29 pm

0-60 in 5.8 and 0-100 in 13.9

That's quick! A little too quick for a std Coupe Turbo me thinks.

May be it was really really cold and he was an amazing driver with excellent launch skills

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:58 pm

Maybe Rover supplied them with an 'E-type' special.. Anyone remember when the E-type was tested and reported to do 150mph, yet no one else managed to get that out of one? Turns out they cheated and supplied a slightly tuned one.

216si · Post by **216si** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:35 pm

not sure about the coupe box but my ti box allow's 130mph in 4th

i have a half decent vid of mine doing a 85 - 130 run in 4th if someone want's to host it for me, it's a 211kb sized file

edit: forgot you can host vids on photobucket:

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g265/ ... V00001.flv