620 Ti versus Audi 2.0 turbo diesel

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:16 pm

I was side by side on a two lane motorway slip road (uphill) on the M54 today with an Audi 2.0 turbo diesel.

Thing is, I had to rag my Ti to get ahead of him up the slip road (max revs in second and third gears).

Is my Ti a tad slow or are these modern Audi TDs a force to be reckoned with?

Any ideas please?

Either way - I was surprised

220Si · Post by **220Si** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:28 pm

Once rolling they are very quick!!

I had the toledo 130 which is 1.9 TD and boy that was stupidly quick for a diesel

With modern technology and all that our older cars seem a bit slow

BMW E39 530D Sport :jawdrop:

That would anihilate (sp) a std coupe turbo or even one with a bit more BHP, a friend of mine had one from work and boy this thing shifted from standing start and once roling would get up to 3 figures faster than you could say "Oh S**t".....If I could afford one this would be mine! even when caning it, we were still getting 24 mpg :cry:

Si

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:37 pm

dont be dis-heartened paul.

I got rinsed by a volvo t5 turbo going up a slip road in a similar situation, and learned to live with what i have lol. Besides, on the upside i can think my car only cost 550quid, and probably the same again to fix and the same again for maintenence.

s0ck · Post by **s0ck** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:47 pm

They are 16v 140BHP. +40 when remapped.
Not slow, by any means, wouldn't have thought it would touch a Ti though...

MGJohn · Post by **MGJohn** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:50 pm

Possibly your ti is a little below par. Mine makes short work of those and as the driver of a new Honda Accord diesel discovered recently when he fancies his chances, his car is not as fast as my old 620ti either. Standing start or rolling. My car is bog standard but, well maintained.

I had to work a bit harder in my TomCat recently from a standing start - the 'opposition' - one of those bright yellow Seat Turbo jobbies .... that driver now knows that not all aged Rovers and their aged drivers hang about ... and his car is almost as fast as the old Tomcat but, only almost - Again - unmodified bog standard but, well maintained.

Both my T16 Turbo cars were acquired for little financial outlay. Vastly under-rated means of getting about from day one.

MGTurbo · Post by **MGTurbo** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:56 pm

2.0TDI (1,968cc) diesel: 103kW (140bhp) at 4,000rpm; 320Nm (236 lb ft) torque at 1,750-2,500rpm

DOM_COUPE · Post by **DOM_COUPE** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:56 pm

new generation vag tdis are rockets a lad called jem up my way had one pushin 230bhp easily was seriously quick

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:28 pm

Whoa......hold the phone!

I'm not saying he got past me (I would never admit to that anyway)- just that I had to work the old bus to get away.

Mind you - looking at the torque figures for that engine, it's not difficult to see why

Thanks for the info though

Si · Post by Si » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:48 pm

220Si wrote:

BMW E39 530D Sport

That would anihilate (sp) a std coupe turbo or even one with a bit more BHP, a friend of mine had one from work and boy this thing shifted from standing start and once roling would get up to 3 figures faster than you could say "Oh S**t".....If I could afford one this would be mine! even when caning it, we were still getting 24 mpg

Si

Nah, a 330d is not quicker than a Coupe turbo let alone the bigger heavier 530d. Very nice cars though and as you say great economy. The 330d coupe is a very nice car.

Sheaf · Post by **Sheaf** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:38 pm

A mate used to have the 130bhp Ibiza.. and that shocked me how quick it was.

I was getting pushed back in my seat from about 1500rpm onwards, was seriously impressed. I'd consider getting something VAG TD powered if I didn't like revving the car so much.

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:36 pm

Scott wrote:dont be dis-heartened paul.

I got rinsed by a volvo t5 turbo

Diesel? Cos IIRC, the petrol is ~250BHP

Rant time: I hate this recent fashionability of diesels! The initial purchase cost is higher, they cost more to tax, and IIRC they cost more to service than a petrol. People then spend 5000 miles a year trundling to the shops and back - being accidentally hailed by drunks and the short sighted - and then bang on about how economic it is. Try adding it up, knobhead!

People bang on about how much better diesels are now, but they're still logger! So they can keep up with a petrol now? Great, bang a turbo on a similar capacity petrol to even things out, and see what happens. Oh no, can't keep up now, even with your higher calorific value fuel.

"They're much quieter now", right, so they only sound like a bus from 50 yards now... They sound dead sporty too, I'm always seeing Golf TDI drivers putting their windows down in tunnels for a listen.

Oh, and everyone knows when you've floored it in a vain attempt to pull away because the car starts smoking!

Diesel is for: buses, trucks and people doing *high* annual mileages (>20k!)

Sorry if I've offended any diesel drivers, I don't mind people driving dervs, but I quickly get fed up of people ramming it down my throat about how good they are. IMO, they are strictly a means to an end.

And what's with the fricken "i" in the badge? Anyone know of a diesel engine without fuel injection?! Think I might add another "i" to my car (better make it a red one!) for "ignition" :roll:

Ti-Andy · Post by **Ti-Andy** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:45 pm

Punx0r wrote: IMO, they are strictly a means to an end.

Correctomundo!

They are boring reliable mile munchers.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:45 pm

aye, twas a petrol.

as you say, im not keen on diesels either lol... they smoke like hell, and sound like a bus.

people think my car is a diesel sometimes , with the "820Turbo" badge lol. Lamers.

MGTurbo · Post by **MGTurbo** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:50 pm

Punx0r wrote:
Scott wrote:dont be dis-heartened paul.

I got rinsed by a volvo t5 turbo

Diesel? Cos IIRC, the petrol is ~250BHP

Rant time: I hate this recent fashionability of diesels! The initial purchase cost is higher, they cost more to tax, and IIRC they cost more to service than a petrol. People then spend 5000 miles a year trundling to the shops and back - being accidentally hailed by drunks and the short sighted - and then bang on about how economic it is. Try adding it up, knobhead!

People bang on about how much better diesels are now, but they're still logger! So they can keep up with a petrol now? Great, bang a turbo on a similar capacity petrol to even things out, and see what happens. Oh no, can't keep up now, even with your higher calorific value fuel.

"They're much quieter now", right, so they only sound like a bus from 50 yards now... They sound dead sporty too, I'm always seeing Golf TDI drivers putting their windows down in tunnels for a listen.

Oh, and everyone knows when you've floored it in a vain attempt to pull away because the car starts smoking!

Diesel is for: buses, trucks and people doing *high* annual mileages (>20k!)

Sorry if I've offended any diesel drivers, I don't mind people driving dervs, but I quickly get fed up of people ramming it down my throat about how good they are. IMO, they are strictly a means to an end.

And what's with the fricken "i" in the badge? Anyone know of a diesel engine without fuel injection?! Think I might add another "i" to my car (better make it a red one!) for "ignition"

You can always tell the person who doesnt own and run a diesel :roll:

You cannot beat one for a daily driver, overall it is cheaper to run than a petrol, torquey and thus easier to drive without ragging it unlike some revvy smaller capacity petrol engines, they also last longer because the diesel fuel acts as a lubricant, co2 emissions are of course lower although the soot is obviously an issue for some..

Diesel is not an alternative performance choice. Modern diesel engines are very good for noise, emissions and overall performance and economy, why else would people buy them? Because they make sense in this day and age, a turbocharged petrol car on the other hand, doesnt make sense as an everyday car regardless of how many miles you drive.

I cant think of many petrol cars that would give me 150 miles on a tenners worth of fuel either

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:25 pm

the emissions on a deisel are lower, however deisels are the only engines to produce PM10s, or particulate matter (10 microns in size). these are HIGHLY carcenogenic, and can cause lung cancer with only a tiny dose. these are the real killers in deisel emissions, but you dont see the manufacturers banging on about PM10s in their deisels coz if the fact got out they wouldnt sell any.

This info is from a published enviromental heath study avaiable at any library, this alone is the reason my everyday car is petrol, even though my landie is deisel, the injectors and filters (inc cat) are replaced regularly (cat replaced with recon cat every year (cost Â£120))

Si · Post by Si » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:58 pm

I drive a 2.0 corolla diesel everyday at work.

Its great as its effortless to drive and even driving it fast it averages 50mpg. Only have to fill the tank once a month!

Sure it doesn't sound that great but for the purpose its used for it's great.

tf_boy · Post by **tf_boy** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:18 pm

Punx0r wrote:
They sound dead sporty too, I'm always seeing Golf TDI drivers putting their windows down in tunnels for a listen.

Ok that nearly made me spit my jd and coke out......

its very very very very true......

darwin · Post by **darwin** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:38 pm

I love all these school run mums who buy a diesel cos they think they're saving money . Like the dude above said , they cost more to buy , need servicing more , servicing costs more , parts cost more , and diesel now costs about 4p more per litre . Talk about false economy .
Although I can see the benefits if you're a taxi-driver or rep .

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:41 pm

Erm

Getting off the gist of the thread a bit here I think guys

Was hoping for a bit of info on the newer diesel performance, not the usual "I hate / love diesels"

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:09 pm

Was it definitely the 2.0 turbo diesel, Paul? Saloon, or estate?

RS RUDEBOY · Post by **RS RUDEBOY** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:24 pm

im not that clued up on performances of cars but would say you shouldnt have had to rag it to get past him???? whats going on there then? what brake are ti's , i only know about tomcats

200SEI · Post by **200SEI** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:32 pm

Diesels are FAR cheaper as a company car if you have to pay tax, as they tax on the emissions.

This is one reason diesel sales have increased so much. It'll never match a petrol for the fun factor tho.

benno_bro · Post by **benno_bro** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:46 pm

RS RUDEBOY wrote:i what brake are ti's , i only know about tomcats

same engine as the turbo

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:58 pm

MGTurbo wrote:I cant think of many petrol cars that would give me 150 miles on a tenners worth of fuel either

A T-series tubby on LPG

raistlin295, you did say you were racing the Audi uphill. His higher torque would give greater in-gear performance, whilst you'd have to stir the box.

On the flat I think you'd eventually reel in any diesel car as you can do near-as-damit 150mph, and you don't hear many boasts of diesels doing anything like that.

4k redline

Made me cringe at work when someone mentioned they raced a new diesel off the lights in his rover 218 TD. Diesels racing each other! In public!

Imagine what the Mad Max films would have been like if they'd only had DERV :wink:

RS RUDEBOY · Post by **RS RUDEBOY** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:11 am

hmmm thats what i thought but didnt want to say incase i was wrong lol , so why the strugle against the oil burner , is your car in need of a set up? my tomcat is standard apart froma chip , exhaust and filter and it sees off a lot of tasty cars

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:23 am

When i had my mk3 200 turbo a Ford Mondeo TDCi raced me off the traffic lights onto the Parkway (70mph road), the Mondeo up to about 70mph was close. I gave up a little bit higher than the speed limit as I had proved my point. However i was bloomin amazed how quick it was.

Some type of Audi A4 Avant Derv also floored it in what i can only assume was 5th gear and it took all of the Ti's power to keep up with him between 70-90mph (in 5th also). They are quick some of these new diesels.

Post by **IrishRover** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:27 am

I did about 2000 miles over in England the other week in my standard 216gti. On one of the sections of the coast road from Bournemouth to Dover, where you get a couple of hundred yards of dual carriageway every so often, I noticed that I had to back off when going up a steep hill to avoid pushing the Golf TDi ahead of me up it.

I could tell he was full throttle because it was a race to overtake as many caravans as possible so we wouldn't be stuck behind them for the next 30 miles. Also, his tailpipe was kicking out the signature plumes of black soot.

Of course, I was abusing the engine in the gti, but the Hondays really do seem to love it.

Lol at Punx0r's diatribe btw. :clapping:

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:35 am

I've heard similar stories from people who have had encounters with the 150bhp Veedub Golf diesels.

Just look at the torque some of these diesels generate.

(The Audi has around 280 foot pounds of torque and that's a hell of a lot of pulling power.) And to make things worse for anyone trying to out-accelerate them, they make this power pretty low down in the rev range. So in many cases the driver can put their foot down and have maximum power at their disposal a fair while before you do. But they don't sustain it for long ...

It stands to reason that you'd have to work the Ti hard to keep the Audi at bay - for a while. But once up to respectable speeds the advantage should return very clearly to the Ti.

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:19 am

Was it definitely the 2.0 turbo diesel, Paul? Saloon, or estate?

Was deffo a turbo diesel Craig - saloon.

As you said:-

But once up to respectable speeds the advantage should return very clearly to the Ti.

after about 65 mph, he soon disappeared in the rear view mirror

David220 · Post by **David220** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:21 pm

Don't know much about the audi's but a mate of mine's dad used to have a golf GT TDi and now he has the seat leon tdi. Both have 150bhp as standard iirc and bags of torque so they certainly do shift.

I guess the audi would be very similar also being a VAG group car.

They certainly do shift at lower speeds thanks the piles of low down torque that they have but they're not so good up the revs being diesel (obviously).

That'll explain why 'the barge' stamped its authority at about 65mph onwards. :wink:

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:29 pm

Ti's are quite slow up to about 65mph too. Though after 65mph you seem to be at tripple speeds quickly to say the least.

My nasp doesnt seem much slower to 60 than my Ti. However from 60-100 it totally inihaltes it.

s0ck · Post by **s0ck** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:24 pm

Gary wrote:Some type of Audi A4 Avant Derv also floored it in what i can only assume was 5th gear and it took all of the Ti's power to keep up with him between 70-90mph (in 5th also). They are quick some of these new diesels.

I'm a diesel fan myself but I can't see how even the new VAG diesels are keeping up with your Ti's. At 70-90 the diesel would be in it's power band in 5th but the Ti would be better off in 4th, does this explain it perhaps?
I've driven heavily modifed TD's and I know they wouldn't stand a chance against my Coupe Turbo...

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:48 pm

Dunno i was in 5th. I think it was a 2.4Tdi, it was the quatrro ones.

keironewoodgate · Post by **keironewoodgate** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:17 pm

Has anyone seen the new BMW 535d?

It's a 3 litre twin turbo diesel the makes 272BHP and 413lb/ft torque!! It makes 95% of its torque at 1,5k rpm and maximum at 2k rpm.
It runs at 41psi!!!
0-60 in 6.4 secs and is limited to 155mph.

There's plans to put in a 3 series too!

s0ck · Post by **s0ck** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:56 pm

keironewoodgate wrote:It runs at 41psi!!!