620 v 820

sidepants · Post by **sidepants** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:24 pm

i have managed to find myself in a mental minefiled and i'm hoping that you guys may be able to help. i apologise now if a thread like this exists elsewhere, if so please point me there and get rid of this one.

i have been looking to get a 620Ti for about 3 months now but haven't found the right one yet (at least, not within a reasonable distance). i'm looking to get one as a replacement for my current car but i'm intending to take it to france this summer and prob do 2500+ miles in it. hence my search for a good one cos i can already see francois at the garage rubbing his dirty little hands together when a englishman in a broken rover roll up.

however, since finding this goldmine of info here, i'm now considering an 820 turbo instead. my problem is this: i know more about the 620 Ti than i do about the 820, but which one should i go for? i'm transporting 3/4 people and their luggage on the france trip so def want 620 at least, but would i be better off going for the 820? i'm looking to spend no more than Â£1000 on the car and (obviously) want the newest, lowest mileage car possible with FSH etc. what would you guys suggest i do?

i like the Ti and the only memories i have of the 820 was an ex-girlfriend's car which, to be fair to it, was only fit for scrap so i'm probably unfairly biased. all help would be gratefully received and if there's anyone in the birmingham area with a decent Ti for sale (or indeed a decent 820 turbo) for sale, let me know!

cheers all

chrisbaldry · Post by **chrisbaldry** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:27 pm

for a long journey you are better getting the 820, it's called the vitesse. it has a bigger boot and has more room inside. it's got the same spec level as the 620 ti and has the recaro half leather interior. the engines are exactly the same and no difference in power etc. the deciding factor is that both cars ceased production in 98/99 but the 600 generally is more desirable than the 800. so for the same sort of money you should get a newer, lower milage 800 than you would a 600.

mach1rob · Post by **mach1rob** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:33 pm

I think your best bet is to try and find a decent Vitesse Sport to have a drive of, and a good Ti, find which you prefer

The Vitty sport will have the Ti on a long cruise like that, theres more room, plus you usually get full climate control compared to a Ti's AC

The 800s can swallow a suprising amount of kit too, more than the 600, well thats what I've found in my experience.
Â£1k should get you more Vitesse for your money than a Ti, although saying that Ti prices seem to be coming down now. If it were me I'd probably try to find either a Vitesse Sport or post 96 one as Vitesse's after then got the Sport spec, lower/stiffer suspension 200bhp engine etc etc and climate as standard

The Flying Dutchman · Post by **The Flying Dutchman** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:39 pm

800 definitely, but hÃ©.....I'm a bit biassed.

Recon-Technician · Post by **Recon-Technician** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:42 pm

Rob pretty much spells it all out, if you're willing to spend a grand that should get you a minter of a Vitesse.

I'm also biased

zozzie_9t9 · Post by **zozzie_9t9** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:59 pm

620ti everytime! But I'm biased! Must admit I've never driven a Vitesse though! But get a good ti and you'll be very happy with it.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:06 pm

800 everytime.

ive driven both (albeit not a Ti and a Vitesse), performance aside, everything about the 800 is better than the 600.

space and comfort, your passangers would like the 800 more. Ive done several trecks to swansea and back, and we all agreed we prefer my car to dads 620sli...

as said, for 1k you will get a pretty mint vitesse, and change left over for bits n bobs to boot.

fluke · Post by **fluke** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:17 pm

Vitty everytime, and i've got a ti.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:43 pm

the 800 is triumphant

hoorah

Most people who have had both seem to rate the 800 just generally 'better' in the loosest of terms.

perhaps grant should get one

SteTommo · Post by **SteTommo** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:51 pm

Never driven a vitty, but the only complaint about the 600 series is the lack of leg room in the back. If your planning on having more than 2 of you in the car then I would go for the vitty.

However personally for me I just don't like the look of the 800s so I'de go for a 620ti

Recon-Technician · Post by **Recon-Technician** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:51 pm

I must admit the 600 is a "sexier" car to look at, but my Dad had a 600 and an 800 at the same time and he prefered the 800 to drive, particularly on the long stints down to the south of Frogland

sidepants · Post by **sidepants** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:54 pm

nice one guys, cheers

have done a little hunting and come up with a vitesse (although the advert says Ultesse!) in the area so gonna go have a look tomorrow morning. car is advertised here on page 2 if ya wanna look:

http://dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/ ... 7&pageid=1

anyone got anything special i should look at? i know what checks to make on cars and those special to the 620Ti cos i've looked at a few, but any in particular for the Vitesse? and really, a minter for Â£1000? in that case that car should be spot on with FSH, MOT, paperwork, all working electrics, no mech faults etc correct?

havin read all the info you guys said about a better car for less, i did an insuance quote, and it came back Â£150 cheaper than the equivilent Ti

i couldn't believe it! seems that maybe i might be leaning towards the vitesse cos like you all said, better for long journeys etc

cheers again guys, wish everyone on the net was as helpful as you!

Recon-Technician · Post by **Recon-Technician** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:11 pm

The primary things to look out for on 800s/Vittys are as follows:

Lowerball joints, they tend to go at around 100k
Handbrake - Caliper cams seize, normally identifable by high handbrake lever
Fuel tank/pipe corrosion, so inspect arround the N/S/R arch
Electric Windows can be tempermental due to dry joint on the fusebox (easily repairable if you're handy with a soldering iron)
Later models suffered with rust around the front arches for some reason
Usual T-16 HG issues

I think thats about it, anyone else?

mach1rob · Post by **mach1rob** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:33 pm

Dash lift

Easyish fix but should be able to knock some off the asking price if it has some

Same mechanical checks to engine box should apply as Ti.

Note on windows, if they beep when you operate them, dont worry, they'll just need recalibrating, means holding switch down till fully open and then closed to set the one touch system up

Recon-Technician · Post by **Recon-Technician** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:37 pm

Cheers Rob....knew I forgot something.
TBH...Dashlift on 800's are a given, but do try to get some money off for it anyway.
For a grand you'd expect it to be the danglies, not even the 800 coupes are going for that amount at dealers these days

But from the postage stamp picture...it looks tidy and is one of the last ever produced as well

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:26 pm

Much as I LOVE my Ti, there is f**k all room in the back seats.

If you will have back seat passengers for any length of trip it would have to be the 800 IMO.

MUCH as it pains me to have to say it

southside · Post by **southside** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:41 pm

Ti looks more modern but you can get alot of vitesse for your money

Jase 220 · Post by **Jase 220** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:05 pm

Has to be 800 everytime for me.

I've driven 820 vitesse mk2 and 620.
800 just has much better lines for me and interior is more to my liking

gav2pac · Post by **gav2pac** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:07 pm

id go for the Ti, but as the others have said, legroom aint too good

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:24 pm

Barge power lol

800 Pros.

Better leg room
More car for your money
same performance (give or take a couple of tenths)
cheaper to buy
cheaper to insure (generally)
less likley to have been thrashed
bigger boot (spec the fastbacks)
Cheaper
More comfy for long distance
Stealth factor

800 Cons.

Old mans image
Gay icon image (see my thread in the lounge)
Easily repairable dodgy electrics
Expansion tanks are vulnerable to cracking

600 Pros

Newer image
stiffer bodyshell
more choice of vehicle
Slightly better fuel economy

600 Cons.

Poor rear leg room
Smaller boot
Problems with drivers window regulators
More expensive

I would go 800 everytime, but i am biased lol.
Personally i would get an 827 for the france trip, then sell when you get back and get a Ti, if thats what you yearn for

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:29 pm

Squaddiemodo wrote: 600 Pros

Slightly better fuel economy

I'm lucky to get 20 mpg - WTF do you get in an 800 then?

Jase 220 · Post by **Jase 220** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:29 pm

pmsl

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:36 pm

just in my experience, i got more out of a Ti than a vitty.

assuming standard specs.

gav2pac · Post by **gav2pac** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:38 pm

Squaddiemodo wrote:just in my experience, i got more out of a Ti than a vitty.

assuming standard specs.

think ive got the wrong car then. bet there wasnt much diff tho was it?

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:47 pm

Squaddiemodo wrote: assuming standard specs.

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:51 pm

gav2pac wrote:
Squaddiemodo wrote:just in my experience, i got more out of a Ti than a vitty.

assuming standard specs.
think ive got the wrong car then. bet there wasnt much diff tho was it?

the difference was only about 10-20 miles to a tank, but every car is different, i cant count the threads on RT about fuel economy and the arguments that ensued, but its not enough of a difference to notice really.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:21 pm

I used to own a Ti. I loved it. I now own a Vitesse. There are things about this car I really love too.

As standard the Vitesse Sport (known simply as the Vitesse from circa '96 on) handles a lot better than the Ti. The difference is surprising. The Vitesse also feels more stable at higher speeds.

The only way I could decide between them would be to select the most important criteria based on my specific needs. If rear legroom finds a place near the top of your list you should lean towards the Vitesse.

*** Edit ***

One more thing - in the sub Â£1000 market you will be very lucky to find anything better than an early example with typically higher mileage. It is true that you can pick up later, "mint" cars for that kind of money, but despite what people here seem to think such cases are exceptional. You should expect to pay Â£1500 plus for a 1997 Vitesse with average mileage (around 80000 miles). Believe me, there are plenty of dealers still demanding higher prices for these cars.

sidepants · Post by **sidepants** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:32 pm

Squaddiemodo wrote:Barge power lol

damn straight! i currently drive a standard Renault 5, so anything feels like a monster! with a standard 70ish bhp currently, i just want something good for the money with plenty of oomph and cannot find anything better than these 2. i wonder if i may be going a little power mad tho...

Squaddiemodo wrote:Personally i would get an 827 for the france trip, then sell when you get back and get a Ti, if thats what you yearn for

now that's an intersting prospect. i don't know if yearn after a 620, just like the look of them and you just don't see them coming. mind you, i guess you don't see the vitesse coming either!

think i'll have a look and a drive of it, see what i reckon cos then i'll have had a go in both and can make a more balenced choice. but yeah, think i may be leaning towards the 800 for passenger comfort cos i'm gonna end up as a passenger at some point too. will let you know how it goes tomorrow.

thanks again all

radddogg · Post by **radddogg** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:54 pm

Vitesse

Definitely

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:06 pm

I'm a bit late (as usual), but the vitresse definitely has more room. Hatchback (or "fastback") 800 will take some pretty large items. The saloon version along with the Ti suffers from small openings (oo-err). Boots are pretty big, but shoving bulky items through the small openings is a no-go

Surprisingly the vitesse sport handles a fair bit better than the Ti, although you may find the ride a bit harsher. Fuel wise, despite being heavier, my last vitesse sport (admitedly coupe) averaged 1-1.5mpg more than the Ti over my gentleish mixed driving. I put this down to the 800's taller 5th gear and better aerodynamics (despite being heavier).

Personally, I think the Ti looks better than the 800 saloon and definitely the hatchback. The ti doesn't stand out particularly, it just looks less dated. It's nice enough, but not very characteristic.

You should be able to get a good vitesse in a private sale for under a grand.

Good luck with whatever you end up with

P.S. might want to look into european breakdown cover

M-Tek Performance · Post by **M-Tek Performance** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:07 am

Vitesse Sport for me if its long journeys you want.

i like my Vitesse Sport

M-Tek Performance · Post by **M-Tek Performance** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:54 pm

zozzie_9t9 wrote:620ti everytime! But I'm biased! Must admit I've never driven a Vitesse though! But get a good ti and you'll be very happy with it.

You can have a go in mine mate if you'd like?

fluke · Post by **fluke** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:58 pm

I would have to put a ti box in a vitty thou.

sidepants · Post by **sidepants** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:36 pm

well, went and had a look and have walked away.

it said 99K on the clock, but the numbers didn't line up and the 1st 9 of the 99K looked like it had just rolled round. that and the interior looked more damaged, the spare wheel bit in the boot had water and rust in it & smelled damp.

checked the engine, it had NO airbox on it, just an open tube with no filtration, the dipstick was crusted into place that required a good tug to move and oil that resembled molasses.

on turning on the electrics there was a clear and loud clicking sound from the dash (couldn't tell where exactly) and a number of the buttons didn;t really work properly. oh, and it did have beeping windows which didn't all work properly. and it was missing the lower half of the dash on the drivers side leaving all the wires exposed.

this was all before even turning over the engine. which didn't sound good at all, the guy admitted it was running "lumpy" which loosly translates as badly.

so, anyone know of any good ones for sale around brum? i'm all ears

zozzie_9t9 · Post by **zozzie_9t9** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:37 pm

M-Tek Performance wrote:
zozzie_9t9 wrote:620ti everytime! But I'm biased! Must admit I've never driven a Vitesse though! But get a good ti and you'll be very happy with it.
You can have a go in mine mate if you'd like?

You may end up regretting saying that!