what is this crap country coming to

[Marty]

It may be the way I look at things but surely the gouverment can see what a logger state this country is in there was a documentary on TV tonight about children begging that come from another country and the documentary found out they have big mansions in there own countrys but during the program it was saying how they have made false claims for benefits and claimed for kids they dont have my problem with that it what the fooook they doing on OUR benefits system they have put fooook all into this country so why the hell we giving them sod all. And all you see on TV is give £3 a month for some starving kid in another country but sorry I could not give two hoots about the starving kids there what about our OWN children in our OWN country that need help you see foooook all on TV for them and I'm getting sick of it and its about time the people of this country got a bloody backbone and told the so called people to sort it out. If they had not let thousands of people in there would be more jobs for OUR own people and OUR benefits system would not be exploited the whole country needs to sort it out we are just like sheep and go along with it how much longer is this country going to shaft US. The documentary about fuel the other night summed that up its all tax for the powers to be what a crock off shite and insurance that's just day light robbery but guess what the good old brittish will be ok they will just put up with it and pay it and put up with being shafted so the more the arses do it. Is this just how I see things or do people agree

Rant over

[jase]

Totally agree mate.

But its the age we live in.



J

[Punx0r]

The problem is, the "government" aren't the ones who created the situation (to the best of my knowledge). They'll probably be voted out before there's been a chance to mend half the stuff people aren't happy about.

[Semproxion]

Most of what you said I agree with.

However having written and re-written my response a few times it always comes across as cynical or racist. Which isn't the point of what I wrote but would be the only thing taken from it.

The issue is though is that we're just gonna sit here and moan about it on an internet forum, myself included and nothing will be done about it.

Until we grow some balls and stop with the apathy and start demonstrating on mass with scenes similar to France and the truckers blockades of the road networks then nothing will get done.

But no, we'll just wait till election day and we'll vote in the other party because the current one won't do anything then we'll wait another 4 years and vote them back in because the others didn't do owt either.

[1234dist]

sorry about this but i am 50/50,

England needs to offer services and charitable services so the big boys in america keep trading with the uk.

Under no circumstances think i am all for paying out scum that make false claims, that's just a broken system with not enough checks and criteria to catch these people out.

[*ASHY*]

Agreed, we are practically the only country that allows this. It's no wonder the world and his dog wants to flock to the UK, it's like dangling a carrot. Take away the attraction and there would be no reason to come here.

It's not racism, it's not prejudice, I am just sick of being skint and having to pay all my hard earned out for others to benefit and getting little in return.

[TheRealStig]

I do agree with-
Illegal immigrants shouldnt be blagging the system
We shouldnt be allowing anymore people to enter and live in the uk, not because they're "foreigners" but because our economy needs to stabilise and giving benefits out to MORE people isnt going to help with that.

Things are rapidly changing because of Britain being a multi-cultural society, some positive, some negative-Thats life, nothings perfect, its not meant to be.

But why is it our god given right to decide just because we were "lucky" enough to be born somewhere where you dont have to logger in a bucket?

Also the mentallity that you could'nt give a bother about kids dying of starvation and disease in other country's is that sick its laughable that people actually agree with you.

Views in "my" country are mainly-Selfish, materialistic, pompous, egotistical and hypocritical.

[alexcornwall]

May be of some interest - I copied this from a blog i read back with the riots. thought some of the information may be of interest. if not - oh well

I know what caused the riots - you don't.........
08/12/20116 Comments

I have seen lots of comment, status updates and debate on our recent social unrest/crime/revolution (delete as applicable). Of course there is never one simple direct cause to such phenomena, but I have seen a lot thrown in to the melting pot for consideration. This got me thinking. Where are we as a country; are we the worst, the best, the most shocking, the most moderate? It seemed worth finding some sort of data to capture this. So, and I promise no charts or analysis, let’s take a trip through league tables:

Taxes

“We pay too high a tax and it puts people off working”; “Corporation tax puts firms off” and other such statements:

OECD

Let’s start with top rate tax. Now income tax is really hard to compare as each country uses a different threshold and different additions and bits –it’s as bad as mobile phone tariffs! But our level of top rate tax is the 18th highest (high = bad) rate (below France, Germany, well most of Europe – and the USA!). I will focus mostly on OECD type countries in this blog. But that’s an interesting start. The UK is not too dear a place to be rich in terms of tax.

But will we ever get to be rich? Well the average wage is 4th highest (high = good) when converted to dollars (depends on $ exchange rate of course). Of course we should never rely on averages as the data is skewed – more latter.

Interestingly (I think) the average wage to top rate tax threshold multiplier is 1.3 – 10th lowest (low =- good) – so our average is closer to top rate tax payer than many countries (don’t worry the top rate starts at about £37,000 – so you can see how high the average is).

But we don’t just pay tax we also pay NI and if we look at an ‘all in’ measure then we come 6th internationally for top-rate payers (51%)– but next 11 are all similar – the USA is as low as 43% - but of course you get no free health, no NHS so no need to pay for it through tax.

Ok so what if you only earn average wage (OECD)? Well if you have no kids tax is the 14th highest (high = bad) - but in fairness next 3 are about same and USA is 2.5% less. Get yourself some children and we are 8th (but tax has dropped by 6%) next 7 are about the same (so little difference in our position with or without children) – US is very generous in this regard with about 10% less tax

So that explains individuals what about firms?

Well not too good being an SME big enough to pay corporation tax (OECD), we are 7th highest (high = bad)– but lower surprisingly lower than the USA (by 0.1%). France is 5% lower but they did invent the word entrepreneur after all.

Big Business (OECD) does well. This time we are 17th highest (high = bad) – below Mexico and 14% below (cheaper!) than the US and Japan (we are about the same as Korea). So a good place for big business, not so good for medium sized.

Finally we also pay tax on things we buy. With regard to VAT (OECD) we are 10th highest (high = bad) (with 4 others) and we were 20th before the rise this year. Finally the old favourite fuel; petrol is the 6th highest – but 5 (including France and Germany) are within 7p.

A more complex index that shows all of these taxes merged together places us at 29th (low = good) with Germany and the two lowest in Europe by some way.

Families and benefits:

Parents and Children (New York Times)

Not easy to get data but about 70% of children live with two adults – but this places us about 4th – and almost ties with the USA. What is perhaps surprising is that 50% of those single parents do not work – however about 40% seems max for Europe so we are not alone.

Benefits (nationalmaster)

Of course maybe benefits are too high? Well we are ranked 16th – a tiny bit above USA and it makes up about 0.3% of our GDP. So we are neither the most generous nor does it consume a lot of our GDP.

Work

Do we work harder? Well 50% work more than 40 hours, placing us 9th (high= lot of hours) – but above this is a strange mix of Japan and USA (expected) and Italy and Switzerland (well less expected by me anyway).

Contrasting back to the previous statistic about non-working single mums 55% of mums in general do not work (child under 6) which places us 11th highest (high = lots work) (interestingly in Japan only 35% of mums with under 6s work).

When we are there are we productive? Unfortunately no – we are about 30th. Unemployed – well about 19th highest (high = productive) – so not that high. And 24th for 15-24 year olds. So we do work, we work averagely long hours, but we aren’t very good at it (it would seem).

Ethnicity:

I’m not even going to repeat some of what I have heard, even as examples. But what it the picture of diversity in contemporary Britain? Well do you think we are ‘flooded’? Not even close. 85% white British, 87% including Irish and 92% white in total. So where does that leave us in a league table? Well for a start quite far behind the USA which has 75% white, behind South Africa which has 80% black (yes South Africa is more diverse than we are), behind Germany which manages 91% (ok so they won that one on penalties maybe), about the same as China, way behind New Zealand at 70% and behind Holland (83%) and about the same as Australia. So we are not exactly diverse by international standards.

Poverty:

So far we have looked at income, taxes and productivity. Clearly we are wealthier in absolute terms than the majority of people on the planet – but what about cost of living and distribution of wealth?

Well in terms of consumer prices in general it is not cheap. We are 14th highest (high = dear) but below some of our near neighbours (France, Denmark, Sweden etc). If you are looking for rental property it is worst – we are 11th and things are not much better for groceries (14th again) and all those celebrity chefs have not moved us from 11th dearest for dinning out either. So not the dearest place to live; but certainly not the cheapest.

With regards to the gap between rich and poor I am pleased to say we are not in the worst 20. We are also not in the top 30 either! Another data sets shows we are worse than the OECD average and a tiny bit fairer than Poland; but way off the majority of Europe. So, not the fairest place to live in terms of income distribution.

Education:

Literacy is a little tricky, it is assumed to be 99% in developed countries and so is not recorded. Some data are available and it does make a very pretty chart – even if ugly reading. About 20th (1 = best) for reading, 22nd for math and 11th for science. Not too impressive.

Crime:

Are we soft on crime? Well we are ranked a lowly 92nd in international standards with ‘only’ 150 people per 100,000 locked up. But, before you pen your letter to The Mail, let’s look a bit more closely. The USA, Russia and Israel are ‘ahead’ of us – last time I looked the USA and Russia had not solved their crime problems? Also ahead are numerous island states and a few eastern European countries. But when we compare with France, Germany, Sweden, Norway etc we are far ahead. The link between occurrence of crime and prison is clear enough but the link between prison and reduction in crime is not so clear.

In case you thought we had too much freedom as an explanation of the need to lock us up our privacy score places us in 14th (1st = best) – a tiny bit better than China. Linking many of these measures together we can use a Human Development Index score – this composite of wealth, poverty, education and other measures again places us around 16th internationally.

So where has this left us? Well we are not diverse, we are not over generous with benefits, our taxes are not high but our inequality is. We are not too good in school but we are very good at locking people up. Whatever caused the recent riots you can be sure of one thing – it wasn’t one thing! Understanding the complex way these variables work together, within the policy framework and cultural narrative that exists in contemporary Britain will go some way to understanding the problem and from that moving to a solution – I doubt it’s water cannon. (Mills, 2011)

available at: http://www.drbryanmills.com/blog.html

[Marty]

Also the mentallity that you could'nt give a bother about kids dying of starvation and disease in other country's is that sick its laughable that people actually agree with you.

I have kids myself 4 of them and i would not of had them if I could not afford to keep them and feed them. They have like 8 kids and more yet you get things on our tv to help them what about there govournment helping them no its ok the good old soft brittish will im sorry but you see absolutly nothing for our own kids and homeless people whats happend to looking after your own. Its wrong they should not even be allowed to broadcast them on our TV stations i would happily give £10 a month to help OUR OWN kids and homeless no wonder this country is going tit s up


Edit: Another thing you watched crime watch lately i must say there are so many brittish named people they are after and people who where born here

[Readie86]

i agree its not racist or selfish do people honestly think people in other country give a rats about kids on our streets? no but were constantly bombarded with adverts to do so for kids in other countries to the point of feeling guilty or being called selfish if we dont charity starts at home!, as for immigrants it really is time to send them home, for instance my sister in law has 3 children and one on the way she lives in a 2 bed council flat with her partner, both work and always have, and they have applied for a move to a bigger property as two of the kids are opposite sex and the council rules state that over a certain age they cannot share rooms... the council inspector pops round and tells them they are not elligable for a move as there is plenty of room for 6 people to live in the flat if they use the front room as a bed room, now heres the best bit the local council hold so many properties back for housing migrant families and the final nail in the coffin, a 4 bed house across the road from my sister in law got given to a migrant family of just 3! the main problem is people in power are to scared to do anything about the situation as it gets deemed as racist and imigrants are to quick to quote the human rights legislation, so the hands of the powers that be are tied by there only bloody laws give it 5 years its predicted civil war will break out and our forces will be patrolling our own streets, people wont sit back and be made mugs of forever and when the tension snaps it will be ugly

[mike88]

I agree 100% with you Martin.

I wonder how long it is until someone decides enough is enough and makes them self into some kind of "rebel leader" and creates a group that deals with things properly. I can't wait, me.

Sounds unreal but it started in Egypt and its spreading across the east.

[Marty]

I agree 100% with you Martin.

I wonder how long it is until someone decides enough is enough and makes them self into some kind of "rebel leader" and creates a group that deals with things properly. I can't wait, me.

Sounds unreal but it started in Egypt and its spreading across the east.

Thing is with the mentality of some people in this county any sort of stand always results in violance and acts of vandalisme it just need to be peacefull and let the people in charge hear what the people of this country want.

If it was down to me if you was not born here and are presently sitting on our benifits system you would be shipped out i have nothing against people who come here work and do there bit to help this country the only problem i do have with that is the people who work here and send the money back to there own country it affects our economy as if that money was to be spent in our country it would help the buisnesses here but the people who leach of this country needs shipping out and we need to shut our flood gates. We also need to get out of this Euro thing all that does is open the gates upto them.

You look at other countrys take America for instance have they let in the amount we have NO they have not and look at the size of there country compared to ours you walk around most of our bigger cities now and its like spot the english man. And they get all this special treatment due to there religions like wearing things over there head and that would they accomodate our beliefs in there country would they hell.

I have had two incedents at work in the last year where customers have tried to use the racist card on me and that winds me up they want everything for nothing and they they get selective english when the aparantly not understand i had one once going on and on about price so i got an invoice and said you see that number there they went "yes" i said well that is a VAT number not a charity number


Dont get me wrong im am far from racist my brother is with a darker girl and he has half cast kids so anyone who says im racist can do one. I just think its about time we stopped being shafted.

[*ASHY*]

the thing that bothers me is how our own values and heritages seem to come last for fear of upsetting someone not native to this country. if i go to another country i will respect their cultures and laws and not expect that country to change to accomodate me. if you dont like that countrys ways then stay away. for too long now the born and bred have come second and that is what upsets the common man here. i believe everybody should be treated the same but that is not the case.
too much pc has thrown this country into a divided nation and created massive bad feeling. i have nothing against hardworking people form other countries, but i am forced to fund a nation of spongers and fraudsters and that includes the born and bred layabouts here.
i do give to genuine charities and the less well off but iam only prepared to help those that help themselves.

[russ220]

the thing that bothers me is how our own values and heritages seem to come last for fear of upsetting someone not native to this country. if i go to another country i will respect their cultures and laws and not expect that country to change to accomodate me. if you dont like that countrys ways then stay away. for too long now the born and bred have come second and that is what upsets the common man here. i believe everybody should be treated the same but that is not the case.
too much pc has thrown this country into a divided nation and created massive bad feeling. i have nothing against hardworking people form other countries, but i am forced to fund a nation of spongers and fraudsters and that includes the born and bred layabouts here...

[southside]

To be fair i think the current goverment are doing a damn site more to sort it out than Labour ever did. Slowly but surely they are starting to make changes.

Only problem is as already said they'll probably end up being voted out before anything drastic happens. Theres still to many people in this country including British public that think the system is fine the way it is , more than likely all the people that are already raking in benefits and dont want to see them cut, that will end up ranting and raving until the plans get dropped.

Its a vicious circle that the goverment don't seam to understand. We let thousands of imigrants in every year. This puts extra strain on the NHS, Schools, the benefit system e.t.c. Also letting immigrants in = cheap labour, cheap labour = less jobs for hard working British citizens. British citizens out of work = more strain on the benefit system and so on.

It also amazed me i read in the paper a few weeks ago that 2 terror suspects that were jailed for 8 years for terror plotting in the UK were released after 4 years and were due to be deported. Courts ruled that deporting them would be "against their human rights" so now they're back on UK streets. Whats saying they wont start terror plotting again? they've done it once so i doubt 4 years inside will stop them doing it again.

Finally what about them Islam extremeists burning the Poppy? Got away with a warning. Love to see what i'd get if i burned the Quran in public.

[Marty]

for the people that are on the dole for a long time ( not those who are actually trying to get a job) the people who just milk the system should be made to do a job like clean the streets and jobs like that if they dont there money gets stopped why should the working people support people like that who dont help them selves and just want to sit on benifits for ever

[southside]

for the people that are on the dole for a long time ( not those who are actually trying to get a job) the people who just milk the system should be made to do a job like clean the streets and jobs like that if they dont there money gets stopped why should the working people support people like that who dont help them selves and just want to sit on benifits for ever

I've heard that was already in the pipeline?

[Marty]

for the people that are on the dole for a long time ( not those who are actually trying to get a job) the people who just milk the system should be made to do a job like clean the streets and jobs like that if they dont there money gets stopped why should the working people support people like that who dont help them selves and just want to sit on benifits for ever

I've heard that was already in the pipeline?

Well so it should be make them put something back into this country instead of just sitting on there buts taking

[rovermadman4825]

I think long time dole spongers shud do community service tasks so they can say they've earned it.

[paul888]

Totally Agree, WTF Happened to this country. ?

[Readie86]

for the people that are on the dole for a long time ( not those who are actually trying to get a job) the people who just milk the system should be made to do a job like clean the streets and jobs like that if they dont there money gets stopped why should the working people support people like that who dont help them selves and just want to sit on benifits for ever

I've heard that was already in the pipeline?

Well so it should be make them put something back into this country instead of just sitting on there buts taking

its been in for a few years now, and its a bit of a sham to cover numbers of people out of work

see the jsa sends the dolies to out sourced training companys, basically they make you sit in a make shift office, try to help build a cv then the rest of the day is spent scouring the net for jobs whilst the training company trys to find you a volunteering placement (i know how this works because i went through the process in 08 after being made redundant)...

now heres the scam bit whilst your at this training facility your name and ni number are taken off the jsa's records and you are classed as being in education much like students claiming ema, you have to attend to keep your benefits but basically what it dose is make the job centre look like its doing a great job no one is technically "jobless" for more than nine months and the unemployment figures look better ta da wool pulled over the publics eye,

thing is most arnt willing to participate or cant whilst in "training" the majority of the lads i encountered there where white english and had some form of criminal record pretty much rendering them un employable even though they wanted to work hardly any could get a voulentry placement and when that happens they are dropped from the course and benefits cut for 6 months...

the other example of the more fortunate is they got a placement volunteering at asda, primark and some book recycling unit in coventry, all went where promised jobs and at the end of the 3 month volunteering period the job was not there and they where sent back to the training facility and moved to the next placement where they got the same empty promise. basically free labour compliments of the goverment with no real help with actually helping to get a real job.

my experience there wasnt great they treat you as if your retarded, i clocked on how the system worked pretty early and refused to let them tar me with the same brush, i had spent years working in the tyre trade and ive got this bird trying to get me a voluntary placement working in asda telling me "it will look great on your cv and will be good experience for you" i then put her straight and said im not volunteering to work stacking shelves, i did that when i was 16, i said i was willing to volunteer but you either find me a placement in a garage where im likley to get a job or find me a placement working with young people (somthing i had always been keen to do) i got a placement working with young offenders in admin and grafted my arse off and got a job part time working with young offenders....

that went belly up this april govermant cut our funding and now im back where i started

[*ASHY*]

I absolutely agree with the idea of getting long time benefits claimers doing community work. I mean why not? There are many many jobs out there that have to be done by other people that are paid to it that are already stretched to the limit. The streets are a mess, vandalism everywhere, rubbish here there and everywhere, fences that need painting etc.

Now why can't someone who has nothing else better to do put something back into the community as a thank you for supporting them. Not asking for a full weeks work for benefits but a couple of days a week.

This serves many purposes, one it gets the person involved and active while out of work (stops people getting lazy), it gives prospective employers something to draw on for info (punctuality, attendance, attitude, willingness etc), it gives back to the community and lightens the load on the community services, gives you some self respect, discourages the tendency to want to stay on benefits as if you have to work anyway you may as well have a proper job earning more money.
TBH it's a no brainer and benefits all round.

[ttrw2]

Gents, lets not forget how prosperous we are as a nation given we have no natural resources worth selling to the rest of the world.

I think we're all pretty well off given that the island we're on shouldn't really have the economy it does.....

Shame about the spelring and. grammar. though

[Marty]

Gents, lets not forget how prosperous we are as a nation given we have no natural resources worth selling to the rest of the world.

I think we're all pretty well off given that the island we're on shouldn't really have the economy it does.....

Shame about the spelring and. grammar. though

We did have resources the north sea gas but they sold it and the resources we do buy in I think we pay more then enough for our gas and electric so nothing can really be said about that we pay our way with that

[Punx0r]

Something to bear in mind is that immigrants are often not entitled to benefits. Migrants also claim less and work more than the native UK population.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with immigration, but it can only help to have an accurate picture of things.

[*ASHY*]

Something to bear in mind is that immigrants are often not entitled to benefits. Migrants also claim less and work more than the native UK population.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with immigration, but it can only help to have an accurate picture of things.

What's the chance of you and I being put in a 2 million pound house in London if we lose our job or become homeless? Even I worked all my life I will never have such a property.
How many families could have been housed in normal housing for that, how many of our homeless could be off the streets in flats/bedsits?

http://ourfuneralpyre.blogspot.com/2011 ... -paid.html

[TheRealStig]

(*Ashy* I agree with some of your points in your 1st post, you're right to a certain extent).

All people do in this country is moan how it is and look to somebody else to blame, mainly the government and immigrants. Never want to take a look at themselves or appreciate what they have.

We're all responsible for the economy or does every still believe it was all labours fault? Was it mr Brown who held you're hand while you went to mr banker and asked for that loan you couldnt afford to pay back?

Or its the immigrant down the road's fault why I cant get a job because he's took the rhubarb.

While we're talking about wealth and not caring about other people from different country's;

We're the biggest bastards going in this country, myself included. We're materialist c*nts who contribute to the squaler what people in Africa etc have to suffer to supply our fake needs.

Diamonds, Gold, cloths, oil !!?!?!

How any of you lot can complain about a few "foreigners" after we have been raping their countries for centuries is LAUGHABLE.

Tunnel visioned hypocrits need to wake up and stop bitching when we've all got it tinky winky easy compared to people in proper poverty.

[MGJohn]

Not everything of course, but, we've become a nation excelling at getting far too many things wrong. We're seen as mug punters of the various Nations around the world. Many types with differing values to us head straight for the UK ... for the various benefits ... and milk them for as much as they can. Not all do that of course but, far too many. Over the years I have become sickened by some of these stories of taking us for the mugs which we obviously are. Like the African woman who had over thirty different false identities and claimed as thirty odd different individuals.

Does this sort of thing happen in other nations?

Excelling at getting things wrong can be as varied as the things highlighted on this thread to buying shedloads of BMWs and being pleased to dance on the coffin of the asset stripped, cherry picked remnants of the former Rover group.

Excellence in operation before your very eyes....

Cheer up though, things are really bad now, but, it's all going to get much worse.

OK Team UK, prove me wrong. Be delighted if you succeed.

OITUK ..
.

[rovex]

I tend to agree, but playing devils advocate here, we did invade most of the countries that the illegals are coming from in the first place, and often destroyed those countries resources and political systems.

Many African nations use old outdated colonial laws. They are simply following our example. We tried to impose western victorian law onto tribal nations, it wasnt going to go well when we pulled out..

[Marty]

I think its good to have a debate like this where people are putting across there views on the subject and not abusing each other if they do not agree.

It will be interesting to see where we are in 5 years time and how the country is then the new powers to be may sort things out who knows if they know whats good for them they will and obvously no one is that ignorant they think it can be done overnight as it cant it will take time but hopefully they will regain our country and take controll of the benifit cheats and the people scamming this country as tis not fair on the people who really need help in this country and cannot get it.

Typical example of that my father inlaw self employed decorator has been for over 30 years and last year work stopped he waited 3 months and nothing came about so he went to sign on and they told him he could not but they where happy to take his tax and national insurance money of him for the last 30 years.


Another example was myself quite a few years ago now i had no choice but to sign on i was made redundant and i went along and signed on and i was spoken to like i was some drug addict or a thick person i lost my temper with the advisor and said " who the fu ck do you think you are talking to i tell you what shove this claim up your donkey boy talking to me like shi t" im sorry but he foooked me right off talking down to me like i was stupid could of quite easilly launched the prat any way i signed a form to cancel the clam and walked out. Two days later my phone rings i answer it and its one of the top knobs at the dole asking why i had cancelled my claim as i have kids as well and i explained to him how his member of staff had a complete attitude problem and that i could easilly do the job that monkey was doing so with that he asked me to come back in two days time to see the arse i had told to shove it so i agreed i went along and guess what he was as nice as pie to me and oppologised he must of had his ear chewed thats why im a great believer in speaking my mind and the above is a case of it does work

[Pinkie15]

I think there's some good points being made in this discussion. I also happen to think reality lies somewhere in between a lot of them. In the scheme of things for legal immigrants the UK's immigration rate is actually low to average compared to a lot of continental Europe/the US. Illegal immigrants, well who knows, they're illegal, suspect most don't get caught, so how can you count them.

Lets face it though, a lot of immigrants take poorly paid, by UK national average standards, jobs and work hard at them. You then get a lot of unemployed British folk mouthing off that the immigrants are taking our jobs, when in fact a lot of these won't do those jobs anyway.

And in some communities unemployment has become a way of life because so many generations have always been unemployed, i.e. the example the kids learn as they grow up is how to work the system to not have to go out to work. I also think some of the 80's greed and look after yourself culture has been very successful, unfortunately it's achieved this success in organised crime (drugs, prostitution etc...)

I'm afraid I place no faith in politicians to resolve this because they have no idea what life is like for a hell of a lot of the people they are elected to represent. I'd count myself in that as I probably had a rather cossetted upbringing, not public school or anything, but we lived in nice areas etc.., no mean feat for a public servant as bread winner under Thatcher's remmuneration policies for civil servants, though we had no car, lucky if we got to go on a summer holiday.

So I do not see any great change happening unless the masses get off their backsides and demonstrate, but of course we won't because that's what uncivilised foreigners do, e.g. laughing at the truckers/students in France.

Marx was close in some of his assessments, but it wasn't religion that's the opiate for the masses, it's television !

[Semproxion]

I tend to agree, but playing devils advocate here, we did invade most of the countries that the illegals are coming from in the first place, and often destroyed those countries resources and political systems.

All of which happened well over a century, well before you, I or even our grandparents were born. Why should this country be made to pay now for decisions and actions taken in the 18/19th century. Why should we be made to make restitution to people whom these acts do not affect them in this time?

Do you think that if you commited a crime now that your great-grandchild should be punished for it ?

[Marty]

I tend to agree, but playing devils advocate here, we did invade most of the countries that the illegals are coming from in the first place, and often destroyed those countries resources and political systems.

All of which happened well over a century, well before you, I or even our grandparents were born. Why should this country be made to pay now for decisions and actions taken in the 18/19th century. Why should we be made to make restitution to people whom these acts do not affect them in this time?

Do you think that if you commited a crime now that your great-grandchild should be punished for it ?

I agree we need to get our country back and look after our own i feel sooooo sorry for any kids my kids have it will be a sad state here by then if we have not already nuked each other

[Punx0r]

What's the chance of you and I being put in a 2 million pound house in London if we lose our job or become homeless?
http://ourfuneralpyre.blogspot.com/2011 ... -paid.html

That is shocking, but it's also very rare.

According to that tabloid-style article, the people in question are asylum seekers, not the immigrants we've been discussing. It also indicates that the same applies to anyone claiming Housing Benefit. Lastly, that the government has already closed the loophole.

we did invade most of the countries that the illegals are coming from in the first place, and often destroyed those countries resources and political systems.

Poppycock! The usual situation that natural resources weren't known to the natives, weren't exploitable, or there was no available market for them. The British Empire provided all three. As long as real advances in the standard of living: Infrastructure, democracy, healthcare etc.

[Readie86]

I tend to agree, but playing devils advocate here, we did invade most of the countries that the illegals are coming from in the first place, and often destroyed those countries resources and political systems.

All of which happened well over a century, well before you, I or even our grandparents were born. Why should this country be made to pay now for decisions and actions taken in the 18/19th century. Why should we be made to make restitution to people whom these acts do not affect them in this time?

Do you think that if you commited a crime now that your great-grandchild should be punished for it ?

+1 look at the atrocities germany caused and that was far more recent than the building of the british empire, yet you dont see any one saying "oh we best not by a VW their grandfathers killed jews you know"