Emergency budget...

[Limecat]

nope. We're buying a place next year. It won't be in plymouth.

Fair plays then, otherwise you would have been dwindling the pool for those in need!

[munky]

dont f*cking patronise me.

Of all the people in this thread who could at one point have agreed with you, I am the one. I live amongst these people day in and day out. I cannot stand them and it makes me really angry to see them do it.

But in amongst them are the people who need the welfare state (the majority I might add), who struggle to get by on the pittance the government gives them to live off, and seeing that this country makes it possible for these people to lead some sort of subsistance when they NEED to is one of the very very few things that I like about this country.

If we got rid of that to please the baying ignorant ivory tower dwelling disconnected bigots such as yourself and stop the minority who do sponge off the state, it would be a very sad day indeed for this country.

[Limecat]

What's patronising about that Munky?

Chill out, it's only the Internet!

[Punx0r]

As much as I believe university should be freely available to everyone

I disagree - a degree is an investment in your own future and should be paid for by the student. They'll end up earning more and I don't see why the lower-paid workers should foot the bill for them. As mentioned, incentive grants could be given for certain subjects.

If only, you have got to experience some of them to believe it. Unless there is somebody standing over them every minute, they just won't do it.

Bah. Chain gang the sods then One man with a rifle or cattleprod could "manage" 50 of them. Or, seriously, if they won't cooperate, cut their benefits. It wouldn't be socially irresponsible because it'll be entirely their own fault.

John Major said, following the killing of James Bulger, "this country needs to condemn a little more, and understand a little less". Different context, but I think that could apply to a whole range of issues in society.

Population: IIRC the indigenous population of this country is supposedly falling slightly. Research suggest that the global population will level out at a not a massive amount more than it is today on the basis that in the world, developed countries with educated people tend to have a stable or decreasing birthrate. Generally, only tripe n onions-poor, uncivilised types breed like flies.

[MGTurbo]

Rent on a council house is squat anyway, i pay £800 a month for my modest house and thats a good rate round here. A female friend of a friend pays £60 a week for the same size house off the council.

Really? I thought it was much less than that.

[shen]

Every dopey nobhead and his dog can go to university these days and often do to study useless crap like pop music, david beckham or socialism
Unless someone is going to study purely academic degree subjects such as Sciences, Mathematics or English and a few others yes they should pay.
Most people just go for the lifestyle and I can't blame them but I don't want to pay for them either...it's like a dole waller but with a little more prestige in many cases.

[Punx0r]

or socialism

[Punx0r]

I read this the other day, might be of interest:

A more systematic development was undertaken by Karl Pearson, another Cambridge-trained mathematician, who in 1911 became the first Galton Professor of Eugenics at University College London. A brilliant mathematician, Pearson became convinced his statistical techniques (which he called biometry) could be used to demonstrate the danger posed to the Empire by racial degeneration. The problem was that improved welfare provision and health care at home were interfering with the natural selection process, allowing genetically inferior individuals to survive - and "propogate their unfitness", "The right to live does not connote the right of each man to reproduce his kind" he argued in Darwinism, Medical Progress and Parentage (1912). "As we lessen the stringency of natural selection, and more and more of the weaklings and the unfit survive, we must increase the standard, mental and physical, of parentage."

[stefaclese]

Next you'll be using craniology to back up your arguments...

[Null_Byte]

The problem with Eugenics is if you take it to the logical conclusion you would not treat many of the common diseases humans suffer from, nor would you provide things like glasses or transplants - opting to have individuals that need them die out thereby improving the gene pool.

Whilst on a statistical level this may be a good thing for the human race, it would really suck if you happened to be a non perfect specimen. Its also worth noting a lot of the people that have taken civilisation forward have had disabilities or less then perfect genes of some form or another. Presumably the mentality required to overcoming personal issues transposes well to fighting to turn an idea into practise.

That said, I think a large percentage of the population could benefit from some natural selection at the hands of common sense.

[Punx0r]

"The gene pool could use a little chlorine"

I posted that excerpt because it the theme seemed relevant to the recent discussion of breeding licences etc. Not because it represents my personal philosophy

If you think less eugenics and more "not having the state pay for the "right" of the most worthless people to breed like rabbits" it could be quite apt.

[radddogg]

Everyone has a human right to procreate as much as they care to.

[shen]

Everyone has a human right to procreate as much as they care to.

Sadly I dont have the human right to NOT pay for them

[MGJohn]

I read this the other day, might be of interest:

The problem was that improved welfare provision and health care at home were interfering with the natural selection process, allowing genetically inferior individuals to survive - and "propogate their unfitness", "The right to live does not connote the right of each man to reproduce his kind" he argued in Darwinism, Medical Progress and Parentage (1912). "As we lessen the stringency of natural selection, and more and more of the weaklings and the unfit survive, we must increase the standard, mental and physical, of parentage."

This is perfectly true. I realised this years ago but had not realised it was explained as long as one hundred years ago as Darwin's natural selection theories had not yet had widespread acceptance.

Yes, we can blame the socialists for introducing the welfare state and the jewel in that crown that is the NHS. It has enabled many, many otherwise unsuitable and lesser types to survive and indeed reproduce and so pass on their lesser qualities to their offsprig who repeat the process ad infi~wossname.

That could include myself who without the services and skills provided by the NHS [ double bypass surgery ], would probably be pushing up daisies for some years now in Mother Nature's way of recycling things... Mother nature will have the final say if the population of the planet continues its unsustainable growth...War and pestilance and even columns of fire may well come to pass ~ Tis writ and I believe it's only a matter of time. anyway, my god is better than yours and on my side plus, my bombs are bigger and hotter than yours ~ Yes, simply a matter of time.

... and I still believe a Breeding Licence will be beneficial in the longer term. Those without can persue uncontrolled breeding. It will not be illegal, but the state ( Taxpayers ) should not pick up the tab for such behaviour. Certain religions are against any form of contraception. Indeed, and encourage uncontrolled procreation... Ever wondered why these dictats are a stringent focal point of those religions, particularly the more extreme ones ... ?

..

Anyway, stop worrying ~ we're all doomed ... some moreso than others ... that's the only real certainty ...
..

[munky]

[Punx0r]

I think the NHS is impressive and a "good thing".

With medical advances though I do think that it's perpetuating disease. I like to think that I'm responsible enough that I would abstain from reproduction if I knew I had a horrible hereditary genetic disease.

Unfortunately there's plenty of people not that responsible who keep having sickly child after sickly child in the vain hope of getting one that's only a carrier and thus continuing the suffering for generations to come.

[radddogg]

The only thing thats hereditary is the lazy gene.

[fergy7197]

The only thing thats hereditary is the lazy gene.

very true!!