Idiots and their fog lights

[Sheaf]

There's been many a moan in the past about people driving in the daytime with their front fog lights on... but yesterday I came across a different and somewhat more dangerous trend - people who DONT put their fog lights on when it's foggy.

What's wrong with people?

I drove back home (Fareham) from Devon (A30, A35, A31, M27) and it was both wet and foggy for quite a large portion of the journey through Dorset. I'm not talking a little misty, I mean properly foggy in a lot of areas.

Of course, as it gets foggy I stick on both my front and rear fog lights, it's not going to help me, but I dam well want to be seen. I think I saw about 2 other cars who had the sense to do the same though.

Katie then had to put up with me swearing like crazy as the cars were just not visible both ahead of me or behind me.

The worst one was a year or two year old focus, in sky blue, with rear clusters in some kind of light plastic style... it was sooo hidden in the fog. The normal tailights were cack and no rear fogs on. You had to be about 30 ft away from it to make it out properly.

Surely, as soon as it gets like that and you realise it's difficult to see the car in front you then think that people behind cant see you and you put your lights on?

As it was nothing other than dangerous, I did then flash a whole load of cars until they realised and put their lights on while shouting obscenities about how stupid they were.

It's crazy though, people drive with the lights on in the daytime and dont put them on when you cant see a thing.

[Punx0r]

True.

I never use my front fogs though - no point since they're no brighter than standard headlights.

I also turn off my rear fogs when someone is following me, no point burning their retinas when they know exactly where I am.

[David-Ti]

Another thing that winds me up relating to foglights, and I dont know if anyone else has seen this is when the "clever" little so and so in his corsa has wired his fogs to come on whilst leaving the headlights off, at night. Whilst looking "cool" driving down a not so well lit stretch of road.

I was'nt stereotyping by saying corsa, it was really a corsa...

[Vard66]

True.

I never use my front fogs though - no point since they're no brighter than standard headlights.

I also turn off my rear fogs when someone is following me, no point burning their retinas when they know exactly where I am.

Agree on the last point, but I always put the front fogs on in fog irrespective - it's more light, is my thinking.

[Sheaf]

IF it's foggy, both my fronts and rears go on and stay on til it's not foggy any more.

I find that cars with front fog lights are far more visible when they come up behind me than cars without. They do very little to help me see in front of me, but I'm sure the people ahead of me can see me much easier.

I've never actually been blinded by rear fogs, they're usually only as bright as brake lights... if it's foggy enough for me to have them on, and they're being blinded then they should back off a bit IMO as they're obviously pretty close considering the conditions.

[Punx0r]

Depends on the thickness of the fog really, I guess. I've certainly been irritated by them. Being as bright as brake lights also masks your actual brake lights, fail in fog IMO.

Driving with sidelights and front fog lights is very chavy and annoying, but you also see some middle-aged people doing it. Years ago, it was the recommended way to use fog lights: 1) to reduce the load on cars' primitive charging systems 2) to reduce reflected glare from the headlamps.

It makes sense when you consider that front fogs exist to allow you to see the edge of a road in extremely thick fog. Conditions where you can't see to the end of each white line down the centre of the road and you'll be driving at 20mph. I've only driven in fog like that once in my life.

In all other conditions they offer no benefit at all - I've tried them many times. There simply is no need to look at the kerb six feet in front of the car.

[618ireland]

On the heap of muck I am driving at the moment the front fogs have to be on before the rear one can be on. HAving a single rear fog is not a bad idea I think as it doesn't mask the brake lights. I feel that if you require your fog lights you should really be travelling quite slowly indeed. I have only once or twice encountered fog so severe that driving at walking pace was required, quite unnerving it was.

[Semproxion]

On my car, it's the same as with 618ireland, Front fogs come on before the rear. I have to agree with the sentiment of the cobblers that drive with them on when it's not warranted and then switch them off when they're needed.

RE: The corsa comment, I believe thats factory standard, being able to use them with side-lights. Probably because the beam pattern of the headlamps is so home aloner they're detrimental in low visibility conditions

[Big__P]

im constantly seein mgzr's and mini coopers with front fogs on - its almost as if they was designed to b on when engine on like headlights for volvos as they are that common

[C2K]

On my 306 you must turn on front before rear. They can be operated in conjuction with sidelights, which is actually the whole point of a fog light - your headlights will be doing sweet FA in thick fog except bouncing back. I have twin rear fog lamps.

I always turn off the rears when someone is behind me so I don't dazzle them like irritating tosspots do to me. (usually the people who still have them on 2 weeks later than the event)

I use the fogs in low visibility - that would be fog or indeed torrential rain such as that encountered last week.

[Roboscot]

IF it's foggy, both my fronts and rears go on and stay on til it's not foggy any more.

That's my thinking tbh. If someone is getting blinded by my rears they are too close, although I would only ever have them on out of town when the road has a higher speed limit.

It never ceases to amaze me how many cars dont have ANY lights on in low-visibility conditions, especially people driving silver or grey cars which can be virtually invisible until right on top of you.

[Chin.]

Seems like it's not only boy racers in their corsas, c0cks in Audis and old farts in new Mercs do it too

[zozzie_9t9]

I've never actually been blinded by rear fogs, they're usually only as bright as brake lights... if it's foggy enough for me to have them on, and they're being blinded then they should back off a bit IMO as they're obviously pretty close considering the conditions.

That's both selfish and foolish.

Firstly fog lights are meant to help people see you through the fog and are much brighter - I'd say someone following within a safe distance could be blinded quite easily. If it's genuinely that foggy to legally have your fogs on, speeds should be quite low so it's quite plausible they could be within that distance from you.

Also as you say they're just as bright as brake lights, if someone has to follow you with your rear fogs on constantly you risk them missing your brake lights if you have to brake for whatever reason. Yes it will technically be their fault for rear ending you but it's a lot of hassle all round for the sake of pressing one little button.

[Sheaf]

I'm afraid I disagree.

Fog lights are bright and can be blinding.... when it's not foggy. However when it's actually foggy (the only time you should be using them) then the fog diffracts the light, so it's not actually that blinding, unless you're very close.
If this wasn't the case then they wouldn't be needed... tail lights would do fine, but they end up totally useless.

If it's foggy I'm certainly not driving along spending all my time watching my mirror to figure out if the person behind is so close he may not like my fog lights.... then having to switch them back on if he overtakes, then off again as somebody else approaches. I'll be paying attention to the road in front trying to spot the idiots in front who haven't put their lights on.

Of course, as soon as the fog eases then you need to be considerate and turn them off as you can be blinding somebody who is at a distance, but when it's thick fog I'd much rather everyone just kept them on. I certainly wasn't blinded by the lights I did see the other day, but the people who just had tail lights on were barely visible.

I'm fairly sure the highway code states to use fog lights when visibility is reduced to under 100m. It doesn't state you should switch them on and off depending how close the person behind is, nor do I think it should.

[618ireland]

I agree with Alex, in foggy conditions one should be concentrating on the driving, not turning on and off the foglights to suit some t1t (not you specifically Zoz ) behind them, in genuine fog they won't dazzle anyone anyway.

[zozzie_9t9]

I'm afraid I disagree.

Fog lights are bright and can be blinding.... when it's not foggy. However when it's actually foggy (the only time you should be using them) then the fog diffracts the light, so it's not actually that blinding, unless you're very close.
If this wasn't the case then they wouldn't be needed... tail lights would do fine, but they end up totally useless.

Fog does diffract the light to an extent but if you're down to 100m visabilty when viewed closer than 100m they can still be dazzling. It could quite conceivably be the case that you are travelling in a queue of slow moving traffic in such conditions and have someone following you at a perfectly safe distance who is blinded by the bright lights beaming from the rear of your car. For example following a tractor in fog may mean speeds drop to 15mph and then following rear fogs for a few miles can be dangerous potentially. Obviously this is quite a different situation from having someone tailing you because they don't wish slow down for the conditions.

Every situation is different so saying that you will always have your fogs on when visabilty drops below 100m whatever the situation is a misguided attitude. Every situation requires thought and not a 'one-size-fits all approach.

If it's foggy I'm certainly not driving along spending all my time watching my mirror to figure out if the person behind is so close he may not like my fog lights.... then having to switch them back on if he overtakes, then off again as somebody else approaches. I'll be paying attention to the road in front trying to spot the idiots in front who haven't put their lights on.

The IAM suggest you should be, on average, checking your mirrors every few seconds so if you're a good driver you should be aware of other motorists and where they are relative to you. So you should not only "be paying attention to the road in front trying to spot the idiots in front who haven't put their lights on" but also be fully aware of those around you.

Of course, as soon as the fog eases then you need to be considerate and turn them off as you can be blinding somebody who is at a distance, but when it's thick fog I'd much rather everyone just kept them on. I certainly wasn't blinded by the lights I did see the other day, but the people who just had tail lights on were barely visible.

I'm fairly sure the highway code states to use fog lights when visibility is reduced to under 100m. It doesn't state you should switch them on and off depending how close the person behind is, nor do I think it should.

That's just a stubbornly selfish attitude - you're quite right about the Highway Code but if it described best practice or all the advanced driving techniques required in every situation is would rival the Encyclopædia Britannica size.

One thing I was taught when I was going through the tutition in preparation for my Advanced Driving Test was that there is much more to being a good driver than just adhering to the highway code - it's all about attitude. So just because the Highway Code "doesn't state" something doesn't mean you should be giving it due consideration. I'd recommend the IAM course for anyone who drives and at the very least it's worth glacing at this.

I agree with Alex, in foggy conditions one should be concentrating on the driving, not turning on and off the foglights to suit some t1t (not you specifically Zoz ) behind them, in genuine fog they won't dazzle anyone anyway.

No offence taken James but see above all the same!

[Punx0r]

If fog is thick enough to actually require fog lights then you're unlikely to be doing much overtaking.

Many people seem to massively over-estimate how far 100 metres is.

[Punx0r]

Something so shocking happened to me tonight I had to bump an old thread to share it...

I overtook a 17T truck on the dual carriageway, and when I pulled in I noticed he had his front fog lights on and they were quite bright. I quickly flashed my rear fogs and thought nothing more of it. Then he switched off his fogs and flashed his headlamps

[rovex]

I think people are frightened to use fog lights because of the attitude of other drivers and, worse, the police.

Some policemen have an innate hatred of fog lights and will pull people over for using them in almost any situation. Ive seen threads about people being pulled over for using fog lights when there is genuinely thick fog. Whether they are necessary or not is a very subjective thing.

[Semproxion]

I think people are frightened to use fog lights because of the attitude of other drivers and, worse, the police.

Some policemen have an innate hatred of fog lights and will pull people over for using them in almost any situation. Ive seen threads about people being pulled over for using fog lights when there is genuinely thick fog. Whether they are necessary or not is a very subjective thing.

There's one of them in Sheffield. His name is Tim Scothern, self-proclaimed "Best-driver SYP has". His colleagues however beg to differ. You may have seen him on "Police Interceptors"

He pulled my next door neighbour for his foglights. We were driving through patches of heavy fog and PC Scothern was behind us. We reached a clear patch, no more than 50-60m then ahead was another bank of thick fog.

Pc Scothern decided that because he didn't switch them off for that 50m that we were worthy of a tug. My neighbour contested it and the ticket was dismissed. The officer on the desk at the station when he contested it told him that they were getting alsorts of complaints about PC Scothern's over-zealousness. However PC Scothern got promoted to the interceptors. Good going by the brass of SYP. Promoting the most complained about traffic officer in the county

[Punx0r]

I think people are frightened to use fog lights because of the attitude of other drivers and, worse, the police.

Good, good Let's have some more of that.

I don't think I've ever seen a vehicle that should have been using fog lights and wasn't. But ones that are, and shouldn't, are an every-minute experience.

The rules are quite simple: rear fogs mujst be used when visibility is below 100m.

Front fogs are equivilant to main beam, and must obviously be used in the same way. As said before, they are absolutely useless unless you can barely see to the end of the bonnet.

[Pinkie15]

I don't think I've ever seen a vehicle that should have been using fog lights and wasn't.

Try the A505 on a foggy morning between Royston and it's end with the A11. I regularly see half a dozen or more cars on a foggy morning commute without ANY lights on travelling in the opposite direction

Front fogs are equivilant to main beam, and must obviously be used in the same way. As said before, they are absolutely useless unless you can barely see to the end of the bonnet.

Obviously not driven a 600 then. Standard bulbs are woefully inadequate, one of the scariest cars I've driven in the dark for abysmal visibility.

[*ASHY*]

Fogs on when not foggy = k..b head, simple as that.
I'm disgusted when I see a Rover driver doing it...

[thamestyres]

the biggest problem with the users of front foglights is that they don't align them properly so quite often they are set to high. which both dazzles oncoming traffic and when in fog creates a screen of light in front of the car if they were set properly they only light up the road in front of the car, but they must be set properly.. most peeps don't know how short a distance 100m is... regards ricky

[Punx0r]

Aye. 100m visibility is pretty unerving. I reckon I've driven in 20m visibility before, and that was fairly scary.

Obviously not driven a 600 then. Standard bulbs are woefully inadequate, one of the scariest cars I've driven in the dark for abysmal visibility.

I only owned one for about a year

I don't recall any issues with the lights. The lights on the 200 coupe weren't that great, but the 600 seemed fine. It had front fogs, and I probably tried them out of curiosity, as I've done a few times - on an unlit backroad (no fog) with no one else around. They genuinely do nothing at all to help visibility. Unless you're interested in the hedge immediately ahead of the car

[*ASHY*]

Aye. 100m visibility is pretty unerving. I reckon I've driven in 20m visibility before, and that was fairly scary.

Obviously not driven a 600 then. Standard bulbs are woefully inadequate, one of the scariest cars I've driven in the dark for abysmal visibility.

I only owned one for about a year

I don't recall any issues with the lights. The lights on the 200 coupe weren't that great, but the 600 seemed fine. It had front fogs, and I probably tried them out of curiosity, as I've done a few times - on an unlit backroad (no fog) with no one else around. They genuinely do nothing at all to help visibility. Unless you're interested in the hedge immediately ahead of the car

Pretty true, but where I live there are plenty of tight country lanes with ditches either side and for this I do use them, but if I see another vehicle they go off.

[jmurray01]

The fact is, that a lot of drivers don't even know how to put their fog lamps on.

People buy a car, and as long as they can start and stop it, they don't bother to learn the buttons properly.

[Punx0r]

Pretty true, but where I live there are plenty of tight country lanes with ditches either side and for this I do use them, but if I see another vehicle they go off.

It's quite like that around here. I'm a little intrigued though, due to my own experiences. I find main beam much more effective at lighting all parts of the road (as it should) than dipped beam with front fogs.

I do see the potential use of them in very thick fog, where your headlamps just produce a white wall in front of you.

[russ220]

I use my ZS front fogs for country lanes n off road use, anywhere the road surface is very sketchy, if anyone comes the other way I switch them off like full beam. Also good for flashing others using thiers too.

I'll also use sidelights n fogs if it's almost light but a fair bit of fog, observing cars coming the other way, sidelights n fogs is less harsh on the eyes than dipped headlights, especially early morning / after work as dusk approaches - again only if there's decent fog, which this one B-road always seems to have

[Punx0r]

Realistically, whatever works well for the individual is fine. As long as they're not dazzling anyone else then they could have a bloody search light on the front of their car

[*ASHY*]

. Also good for flashing others using thiers too.

Lol I always flash my fogs at others using theirs unecessarily.

[bjrespect]

i drive everywere on main beam at night as the standard disco lights are awful

not sure were the lights sit on other drivers but im sure there still not as bright as the new audi lights

[Sheaf]

Lets face it, most people use front fogs when completely unnecessary because it 'look wikkid man'.

Mine pretty much never get switched on.

If your standard lights aren't up to it, get them fixed/replaced tbh, dont attempt to work around it by using something not suitable for the purpose.

I see people using them in town, in well lit areas, with no sign of fog. It's nothing to do with viability. They dont ever really do anything useful for visibility when they are on any way. Great, the kerb is a little brighter... wierdly enough I'm looking a little further ahead than the kerb 10ft in front of me.

If they were 'required' then they would be a legal requirement, but many many cars dont have them and I've never once heard anyone say 'you know, I cant see much at night, what I really need is a set of fog lights'.
I'm pretty sure you could stand around the lighting section of Halfords and within an hour hear a chav turn up and see them, mutter something about 'pukku' to his 'bruv' and go to the til (or just nick them).

[jmurray01]

Lets face it, most people use front fogs when completely unnecessary because it 'look wikkid man'.

Mine pretty much never get switched on.

If your standard lights aren't up to it, get them fixed/replaced tbh, dont attempt to work around it by using something not suitable for the purpose.

I see people using them in town, in well lit areas, with no sign of fog. It's nothing to do with viability. They dont ever really do anything useful for visibility when they are on any way. Great, the kerb is a little brighter... wierdly enough I'm looking a little further ahead than the kerb 10ft in front of me.

If they were 'required' then they would be a legal requirement, but many many cars dont have them and I've never once heard anyone say 'you know, I cant see much at night, what I really need is a set of fog lights'.
I'm pretty sure you could stand around the lighting section of Halfords and within an hour hear a chav turn up and see them, mutter something about 'pukku' to his 'bruv' and go to the til (or just nick them).

I know what you mean!

I've seen quite a few cars (usually Subaru's) recently with those massive fog lamps fitted to the grille and the lights blazing at 1 in the afternoon!

And guess what, they all had 17 year olds with sunglasses and caps on behind the wheel going about 80MPH on a winding country road.

Idiots.

[*ASHY*]

I've seen several tosspots today driving round with the fogs on and NO headlights, now this really gets my somebody that I used to know.