News - New parking rules 'could spell chaos'

Firose · Post by **Firose** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:53 am

Seen this on the morning news and some of the new laws are ridiculous

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7184510.stm

That means getting a ticket in London rises from Â£100 to Â£120, and they can now send tickets thru the post now if drivers drive off.

Firose

Quiche81 · Post by **Quiche81** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:20 pm

Despite all the flapping the goverment do they make it so obvious they see the motorist as
one of the best money earners going.

Allways hiding price hikes under glorified statements like, "In the interest of the environment"

I'd hate to think how much the government rakes in from the motorist, Car tax, fuel duty, penalties etc
and here is just another way to cash in from the man in a car.

talkingcars · Post by **talkingcars** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:39 pm

"So we'll be allowing traffic wardens to issue tickets even if somebody is in the process of driving away and that's a real safety issue."

So I pull up in a bus stop, engine running, my disabled daughter gets out of the passanger door, steps up to the bus stop to catch her bus, I drive off, I get a fine through the post because a CCTV operator has zoomed in on my number plate!

Fluke · Post by **Fluke** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:59 pm

talkingcars wrote:
"So we'll be allowing traffic wardens to issue tickets even if somebody is in the process of driving away and that's a real safety issue."
So I pull up in a bus stop, engine running, my disabled daughter gets out of the passanger door, steps up to the bus stop to catch her bus, I drive off, I get a fine through the post because a CCTV operator has zoomed in on my number plate!

Yes.

Firose · Post by **Firose** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:02 pm

talkingcars wrote:
"So we'll be allowing traffic wardens to issue tickets even if somebody is in the process of driving away and that's a real safety issue."
So I pull up in a bus stop, engine running, my disabled daughter gets out of the passanger door, steps up to the bus stop to catch her bus, I drive off, I get a fine through the post because a CCTV operator has zoomed in on my number plate!

Well the CCTV rule has been in force for a while (well in London) and it means no stopping at all even for a split second.

But now wardens can decide to issue you a ticket though the post if they feel like it or if they don't like the look of your car.

But how would you appeal against that then to the council ?

Firose

Quiche81 · Post by **Quiche81** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:05 pm

Firose wrote:
But now wardens can decide to issue you a ticket though the post if they feel like it

Which lets face it is about 99.99% of the time.

Roboscot · Post by **Roboscot** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:35 pm

I got a 60 quid ticket last SUNDAY - didnt even know you had to pay for street parking on a sunday, I know for a fact you never used to anyway, but just to make sure I checked the windows of every car I walked past on the way to the cafe I was going into for lunch. Not one had a ticket, and I was nowhere near a machine to double check so I left it at that.

We returned to the car to find a ticket stating what time we parked and at what time the ticket was issued - they'd bloody watched us pull up on cctv and run out with a ticket when it was clear we werent buying one from the machine.

Thieves!

Post by **Punx0r** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:03 pm

Petty parking enforcement is one of my pet peeves. It's exasperated ten-fold when it's done by a private company through decriminalised parking.

It really bugs me that parking tickets cannot be challenged in court. I don't even understand how that's legal

If I didn't love my car I seriously would consider running an old banger on false plates. Being a law-abidding citizen seems like it is becoming a pastime for masochists only!

mike50001 · Post by **mike50001** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:18 pm

Punx0r wrote:
If I didn't love my car I seriously would consider running an old banger on false plates. Being a law-abidding citizen seems like it is becoming a pastime for masochists only!

why would you want a car you could get free fuel in, not have to insure or tax, an could get away without the congestion charge.

not have to pay parking tickets, speeding fines. sounds like a really bad criminal life. you could even be charged about a fiver for all these criminal acts.

couldnt dream of such a bad life

Fluke · Post by **Fluke** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:15 am

Strictly speaking I think all fines issued outside of the court are illegal.
Don't quote me but I remember some pensioner from Thanet was challenging this thru the courts.

Post by **Punx0r** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 pm

That's my understanding too: only a court can issue a fine following criminal conviction.

Excluding contractural penalties, which I'm sure on-street parking contraventions would not be?

marko · Post by **marko** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:05 am

Punx0r wrote:It really bugs me that parking tickets cannot be challenged in court. I don't even understand how that's legal

You can challenge them, and you'll invariably win - enforcement isn't worth their time when there are plenty of other mugs out there.

Shooting parking persecutors on sight or whipping the plates off whilst parked works, and you can run angle-grinders off the 600W inverters often on offer in Maplins.

I often wonder whether it'd be cheaper for the taxpayer to exchange UK nationality for $5k and a one-way ticket to a new life in Iraq (or $5k for your family and a cyanide capsule) - saves creating employment in the shape of stupidly inefficient taxes...

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:41 pm

Marko, are you talking about private parking tickets? I know the deal with challenging them

All the council issued ones for on-street say that you must appeal to a tribunal if you want to challenge the ticket. I swear I have read before that they cannot be challenged in court.

Interesting point about the plates. Is it an offence not to display plates whilst parked on the highway, or only when driving?

With them sending tickets through the post it'll circumvent that joke about leaving your wipers on whilst parked

weirdjam · Post by **weirdjam** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:27 pm

you can see the noose tightening the goverment was looking at prosecuting makers of numberplates that dont say show plates all over them only official plates to be made, use of anpr now widens to parking breaches. Nice nanny state.

I fix appliances for a living i have 2 very heavy tool boxes, parking on double yellow lines and in permit (not disabled i add) bays without permits is all in a days work for me. Its means that repairs prices will go up meaning pricies for the appliances will go up meaning less will be bought meaning we make job cuts...we are one company multiply that nationally we have a recession.........if i park legally it could be half a mile away so i am more at risk with my health i go off sick need more ssp so council gives out more tickets to pay for my sickness.....

My glass is half empty aint it. OK its a bit extreme but paints a picture.

We already ask customers if parking is ok, soon this will charging will be passed on to the customer.

On another note, never in a million years did i think that parking would be number one on my list for housing needs when me and lisa buy a house later in the year......bloody theiving labour party.

marko · Post by **marko** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:18 pm

Punx0r wrote:Marko, are you talking about private parking tickets? I know the deal with challenging them

All the council issued ones for on-street say that you must appeal to a tribunal if you want to challenge the ticket. I swear I have read before that they cannot be challenged in court.

Decriminalized county council ones, Cambridge specifically. You can appeal to the council - who will automatically reject your appeal regardless of the circumstances.

Once you've got their rejection you can then appeal to the National Parking Adjudication Service - these guys look at the case and issue a 'final verdict' - but they are professional legal folk as far as I'm aware, and importantly not the county council so they do no profit from the tickets. They look at the case, and invite the council to supply evidence/make their case by a certain date - or withdraw the ticket. No evidence - council lose automatically. What you'll find is the council then threaten you some more through the post, but when it comes to supplying evidence/challenging your defence they chicken out and withdraw the ticket.

Not court as such, but you can certainly appeal to a higher body than your local council, and as they rarely have sufficient evidence anyway - especially as you're never illegally parked

they can never defend the ticket. They will have the handheld machine, which the parking nazi can key numbers in to get timestamps, and these can be used against you. Typically all they'll have in addition to this is a snappy snappy digicam with a timestamp on, which may be used to threaten you via the post, but is not admissible in court as far as I know.

'course, this assumes that the wording on the ticket is correct in the first place. "Penalty Charge Notice" and you're done for. Anything else and you can tear it up and throw it away - Road Traffic Act is very specific.

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:56 pm

Thanks, good info

They've recently introduced decriminalised parking around here and the profit-driven victimisation started without delay. They don't bother with obstructions that inhibit traffic flow, just roam residential streets ticketing parked cars who have no where else to park, and weren't blocking the road anyway.

It's crazy IMO that the law should be administered by private companies with dubious motives. I'm sure VOSA will soon be doing traffic enforcement, GSL will do any crimes below murder, the courts will be owned by macdonalds and the prisons by a mafia.

I wonder what other bright ideas that bunch of chimps in downing street have?