bad habit being tought by greenlight

[bjrespect]

my g/f hannah is learning to drive and getting on really well but and this is a BIG BUT

the instructer is teaching her to hold the car on A HILL WITH THE CLUTCH

quess who is going to be mr clutch when she passes

[bgunn]

Good example to teach - how to fail the test in one easy step.

As a tool for learning clutch control, it's fine; but only for that.

[Din]

Eh..... always handbrake and hill start, how can she ever learn that way

[bjrespect]

i know but time will show when its test time

but i dont like it not one bit


anyone know if a jcb clutch will fit a tigra lol

[Punx0r]

My instructor told me you could hold the car on the clutch all you liked during your test and wouldn't be marked down for it. The requirement being to be in full control of the car at all times whether you use the handbrake, clutch etc.

But yeah, it's a bad habbit and I don't do it unless I have to stop for literally a second or two.

[BlueRover]

Don't tell me, the instructor is a woman

Clutch control isn't a female's strong point, just watch them reversing a car .......
Accelerator on full, clutch pedal almost fully depressed, release clutch slowly, minimal car movement ......

Also, windscreen wipers .... fastest speed even during minimal precipitation. One way to destroy the blades.

I'm not being sexist, really. Look at the standard of today's new drivers, I don't know how some people pass their tests. No awareness of their surroundings at all.

[Null_Byte]

The driving test is a complete joke!

I remember on my test I failed because my gearchanges were too smooth.

The examiner said I was coasting when changing gear (I wasn't, I was just good at matching gearchanges having been used to driving a non synchro box!) and she also couldn't see my feet (I'm a short a$s, so have my seat closer to the wheel).

Obviously there is no debating with the examiner, so I discussed it with my instructor. His suggestion was to rough up the gearchanges to let them know it was in gear. I did this and passed.

At this point I concluded that the driving test has almost nothing to do with the real world whatsoever! The Finnish system always seemeed a lot more practical and includes skid pan training, which I think is a good idea

I really think some basic mechanical understanding needs to be taught to all new drivers as well. People that can’t change a wheel, or have to call the AA out to help them pump their tyres up at the garage should not really be in control of a vehicle. As much as car manufacturers are attempting to turn cars into appliances like a washing machine or a microwave, washing machines rarely kill people when somebody puts on the wrong spin cycle.

Another thing I don’t understand, is when people say they don’t like driving on a motorway, or can’t reverse park or such. The only way to get good at something is by practising, by avoiding the situation they are storing up trouble for when they don’t have a choice!

[munky]

I always use the clutch on hills...

Mainly because my handbrake doesnt work.

The test now is a lot harder than it was! When I took mine I got two minors in every box, and the 'theory' part was identifying two signs (no entry and a speed limit sign ) and telling him the stopping distance from 60... which I got wrong.

Jon, i believe that part of the test now does include basic mechanical things, knowing where the oil cap is, how to change a wheel etc. But I may be wrong.

The thing I find most worrying about the driving test is that it doesnt include any kind of motorway or dual carriageway driving!

[Drew]

agreed, when i did my A1 bike test i never got over 40mph!!

Drew

[Punx0r]

The tests around here include (or did) the dual carriageway, and you're expected to overtake if appropriate. Perhaps it just depends on what roads there are around the test centre?

[russ220]

The tests around here include (or did) the dual carriageway, and you're expected to overtake if appropriate. Perhaps it just depends on what roads there are around the test centre?

when i took my test (8:40am on a monday) i was sat waiting to pull out of the service road onto the main road for 25minutes, as no-one commuting to work wanted to be stuck behind a learner. So for me most of my actual test i was stationary outside the test centre waiting to join a long queue tailing back from a roundabout

i still passed lol. i also took the PassPlus which included motorway driving etc, IMO the passplus should be mandatory.

[RobBBoi]

You don't do motorways on a normal driving lessons, as people with provisional licenses arn't allowed on iirc. Once you have passed you can do a Pass Plus course, which includes motorway, night driving, wet driving etc. Insurers give quite good discounts for a Pass Plus.

I had to point out the windscreen washer tank, oil cap and dipstick on my test.

[bgunn]

You can drive on a three lane dual carriageway though, which is what my instructor had me pounding up and down after mastering all of the around town stuff. It's a good way to get the 70mph 'motorway like' conditions...

[shen]

To the original post...When I learnt to drive I was taught clutch control on a hill.
I never used handbrake at the lights.

Passed first time after only 8 lessons

My instructor thought I'd been a car thief due to how quickly I picked up everything...cheeky to$$er.

[munky]

To the original post...When I learnt to drive I was taught clutch control on a hill.
I never used handbrake at the lights.

Passed first time after only 8 lessons

My instructor thought I'd been a car thief due to how quickly I picked up everything...cheeky to$$er.

Mine thought similar of me for picking it up quick. I explained I'd been driving since I was 13 lol.

[618ireland]

I was p1ss poor at learning how to drive, I'm driving 10 years and have never hit anything but I wouldn't consider myself a good pilot, wouldn't be any good at trackdays or the like.

[Sheaf]

Lots of people now take the American stance that it's not a handbrake, it's a 'Parking Brake'.

I personally find this annoying as I use mine all the time. Stop for more than a second and it's on. I don't like holding the car on the clutch and I don't like blinding people behind with brake lights.

However, a lot of cars these days have armrests which are placed covering the handbrake! You have to reposition it so you can get to it. The theory is you only use the armrest when you're on the motorway, but in reality people just leave it down and never use the handbrake.

Agreed that the test is not that realistic, however you can see why they do it. You have to set up a test with definite criteria, if you put it down to an assessors personal opinion of whether that person it competent it becomes very grey rather than black and white.
We don't all agree with the criteria, like checking your mirrors every 5 seconds or whatever as something like that is not done by experienced drivers religiously as most of us get used to seeing the mirror in our peripheral vision. I know when something is behind me just out of instinct. However... imagine testing that if it wasn't quantifiable.

Most tests are the same... they're not reflections of reality, but they're the nearest measurable alternative.

[edward22]

when my gf was learning she was taught the same thing .

even at the lights she was holding the car on biting point as thats what she was taught to do.

she didnt like it when i was telling her to get off my damm clutch!

she was like that's what the instructor told me to do !

im like well HES WRONG lol he aint the one who has to pay for a new clutch . so i coaxed her over to the old way of doing things thank god

what annoys me is young people now learn in nice new cars with ABS, traction control lsd etc etc etc all the mod con safety things.

and like hell can they afford a first car with all that they usally end up in a small cheap as car they can afford . and usally write them off as they panic when the breaks lock up of the car starts to slide round bend etc

[Punx0r]

I definitely wasn't one of these people who passed first time after five lessons.

My lack of natural coordination meant many of my early lessons were really hard work. I'd reliably loose concentration from mental exhaustion after about 30 mins of the 45 minute lessons and I'd sweat a lot.

With ~99% of my concentration spent on operating the car's controls and piloting it along the road without hitting stuff this left precious little attention for lane markings, signage and the behaviour of other road users. This caused some big faux pas and some raging arguements with my dad when he gave me some extra tuition.

It got better, but even a couple of years after passing my test a long journey would knacker me out.

I'd say my car control now was pretty good and I make up for my less-than-fantastic eyesight and reactions by preparedness and forward planning.

Something that still catches me out sometimes is if I suddenly find myself in a complicated situation with no idea what's going on I get flustered and revert to instinct and make a snap decision that's invariably wrong. Thus I end up taking a wrong turn or heading through a "no entry" sign

Practice and familiarity with most situations on the road means it rarely happens now and not caring so much about occasionally being a minor hinderance to other road users means less panic.

I'd say I was a reasonable driver but being aware of your own limitations and mistakes is very important IMO. Also, not everyone has l33t naturally skills and for a lot of us it's something to practice at. Enjoying driving definitely aids motorvation to improve!

[edward22]

ive been very lucky to have advanced lessons from a police traffic instructor as my old man used to be head of traffic for Hampshire police.

they teach you to drive whilst giving a running commentary of everything thats going on all hazards and possibilitys etc.

also had great fun in a skid pan

[Cableguy]

And yet you still manage to tot up 12 points

[edward22]

yeah i no shhhhhh . lol

thats the trouble it annoyed me really . as i lost my job as a result . and the kid before me who was 19 . who got caught doing 102 in a 30 limit got 9 days . due to the fact he has 2 kids .

i get 6 months of doing things like 36 in a 30 44 in a 40 stupid little things .


im not saying it is write. and i was in the wrong. but they do like to make a example as they cant be seen to be kind cus of what my parents do etc.

give me time to do decorating and car stuff .etc and i dont exactly need the money, so all is good .

anyway bk to the thread

[shen]

I just really love people who either don't have clutch control or are too lazy to use it and put their handbrake on at the lights.
Especially when I'm sat behind them and end up waiting for the lights to go back to red before they finish faffing about putting the car in gear, finding biting point, letting handbrake off, stalling going through whole process again.

Only detriment I see is that you'd need to change your clutch a little sooner...way most people on here drive I don't think it's holding the car on ahill that will be the reason for clutch changes.

TBH I'm very shocked that so many people make such an issue of what I've always considered the proper thing to do....exception of course if you're at a junction to a main road and could be pushed into traffic from a rear shunt (not relevant if car behind is stationary)...that's it.

Enjoying driving definitely aids motorvation to improve!

this is so true...I think one of the reasons I passed so quickly was due to my being so focused and giving absolute concentration to everything that I was being taught..confidence also helps people achieve their potential.

[munky]

I just really love people who either don't have clutch control or are too lazy to use it and put their handbrake on at the lights.
Especially when I'm sat behind them and end up waiting for the lights to go back to red before they finish faffing about putting the car in gear, finding biting point, letting handbrake off, stalling going through whole process again.

Only detriment I see is that you'd need to change your clutch a little sooner...way most people on here drive I don't think it's holding the car on ahill that will be the reason for clutch changes.

TBH I'm very shocked that so many people make such an issue of what I've always considered the proper thing to do....exception of course if you're at a junction to a main road and could be pushed into traffic from a rear shunt (not relevant if car behind is stationary)...that's it.

shen for pm.

[Cableguy]

I just really love people who either don't have clutch control or are too lazy to use it and put their handbrake on at the lights.
Especially when I'm sat behind them and end up waiting for the lights to go back to red before they finish faffing about putting the car in gear, finding biting point, letting handbrake off, stalling going through whole process again.

Only detriment I see is that you'd need to change your clutch a little sooner...way most people on here drive I don't think it's holding the car on ahill that will be the reason for clutch changes.

TBH I'm very shocked that so many people make such an issue of what I've always considered the proper thing to do....exception of course if you're at a junction to a main road and could be pushed into traffic from a rear shunt (not relevant if car behind is stationary)...that's it.

shen for pm.

I'll second that, clutch ride ftw.

[munky]

you dont even need to ride the clutch tbh. Just be quick off the brakes, or heel-toe.

[edward22]

well ill stick to my hand brake tbh at the lights .

when u have some one rear end u and push u out onto a junction .onto incoming traffic ur no why.no matter if the car behind u is stationary or not . if some one hits that car behind u at any reasonable speed . then they will hit u.

also if ur behind some one at the lights . and some one rear ends u and pushes u into the person in front its considered ur fault if u don't use the handbrake.

if people are paying attention to the road and the lights they should be able to prejudge the lighting sequence and take there hand brake off and engage gear long before they hold u up

[Cableguy]

You drive a rover, it makes zero difference if the handbrakes on or not tbh

[edward22]

my hand brake holds my car very well actually . i have a steep drive and it sits there fine . and u can jump about in the car as much as u want you wont shift it .

if peoples handbrakes dont work on there rover not my problem, if they don't solve a breaking issue then more the fool them.

[shen]

well ill stick to my hand brake tbh at the lights .

when u have some one rear end u and push u out onto a junction .onto incoming traffic ur no why.

also if ur behind some one at the lights . and some one rear ends u and pushes u into the person in front its considered ur fault if u don't use the handbrake .

I mentioned junctions...and you prove I didn't have my handbrake on when you ar$e end me.
Also being a dilligent driver and keeping aware of whats around me niot just in front, I would notice the car speeding up the hill to batter me into oncoming traffic
Because lets be honest...you're using the clutch on a hill so it's gonna take some force to push you up a hill isn't it?
Also the fact that to not be able to brake after this nudge you'd need to be hit with a small asteroid so what good is the handbrake going to have done?

think on

[Cableguy]

my hand brake holds my car very well actually . i have a steep drive and it sits there fine . and u can jump about in the car as much as u want you wont shift it .

if peoples handbrakes dont work on there rover not my problem, if they don't solve a breaking issue then more the fool them.

Vids or it didnt happen.

[edward22]

well ill stick to my hand brake tbh at the lights .

when u have some one rear end u and push u out onto a junction .onto incoming traffic ur no why.

also if ur behind some one at the lights . and some one rear ends u and pushes u into the person in front its considered ur fault if u don't use the handbrake .

I mentioned junctions...and you prove I didn't have my handbrake on when you ar$e end me.

lack of skid marks from the rear tyres on the road will quite easily prove that .

[Cableguy]

my hand brake holds my car very well actually . i have a steep drive and it sits there fine . and u can jump about in the car as much as u want you wont shift it .

if peoples handbrakes dont work on there rover not my problem, if they don't solve a breaking issue then more the fool them.

Drive something else other than a rover and you will realise that even when the handbrake works excelently , its inferior and is a 20 year old design.

Try and lock the rear brakes up at anything more than 5 mph with the handbrake and i will be totally shocked, i know our E46 would turn you around at 50.

Also , the handbrake efficiency is 17% effective on an mot as a bear minimum , i can 100% tell you that with this value i can push the car down the road with the handbrake on.

[Cableguy]

well ill stick to my hand brake tbh at the lights .

when u have some one rear end u and push u out onto a junction .onto incoming traffic ur no why.

also if ur behind some one at the lights . and some one rear ends u and pushes u into the person in front its considered ur fault if u don't use the handbrake .

I mentioned junctions...and you prove I didn't have my handbrake on when you ar$e end me.

lack of skid marks from the rear tyres on the road will quite easily prove that .

Thats if the police actually bother to measure them or photograph them or can prove which car they came from etc. etc..

[Gibbo]

I definitely sense a tag team going on here.