englands world cup chances

[radddogg]

To sum up....

Had the goal been given then we wouldn't have been chasing an equaliser so neither of the last two Germany goals would have occurred as they were both scored on the counter. So the ref changed the dynamic of the game. HOWEVER we wouldn't have been playing the krauts if we had beaten the unknowns aka Algeria who were beaten by both other teams in our group so we can only blame ourselves for that. But how were the team meant to understand a tactic when the manager cannot even speak the language?

Capello out and leave Redknapp alone you gits! He's ours! (Spurs fan)

Best thing to come out of the campaign? The knowledge that we won't have to endure the Gerrard and Lampard combination again.

[Limecat]

To sum up....

Had the goal been given then we wouldn't have been chasing an equaliser so neither of the last two Germany goals would have occurred as they were both scored on the counter. So the ref changed the dynamic of the game. HOWEVER we wouldn't have been playing the krauts if we had beaten the unknowns aka Algeria who were beaten by both other teams in our group so we can only blame ourselves for that. But how were the team meant to understand a tactic when the manager cannot even speak the language?

Capello out and leave Redknapp alone you gits! He's ours! (Spurs fan)

Best thing to come out of the campaign? The knowledge that we won't have to endure the Gerrard and Lampard combination again.

I disagree, OK, if the goal had been given they wouldn't have had to chase the game but that was when England looked most threatening and it would have only restored parity - something they started from anyway. TBH, I think even if it was given, Germany would have still won - they had more penetration and were clinical.

Agree completely on the Algeria thing (or even the blunder by Green in the USA game as that was as clear a walk to a semi-final as you could have prayed for!) but the managers English didn't stop them winning all but one (already qualified when they lost that one anyway) and being the highest scoring European team did it?

Also, quit the kneejerk 'sack Cappello' crap. Who is better that is out there and available? He has proven his worth, it was a loss against a team with an amazing record of getting to the latter stages, it doesn't matter if you lose to them in the last 16, the quarters or the semi's - either way you are out.

Credit where it is due, the child-molesting, mullet-bearing, Jew killing, Merc bumming Nazi badgers were better on the day.

[Punx0r]

To sum up....

Had the goal been given then we wouldn't have been chasing an equaliser so neither of the last two Germany goals would have occurred as they were both scored on the counter.

Doggies They could easily have conceded 7 or 8 goals to germany in making the same mistake over and over again. James saved the day. I like him, he was the best player on the team and he reminds me of denzil from only fools and horses

It was pure shite, completely inexcusable from start to finish of the tornament.

A cursory glance suggests England had the team that least represented their nation, so cheated and still sucked.

[Punx0r]

Also, quit the kneejerk 'sack Cappello' crap. Who is better that is out there and available?

My nan? Me, even?

Even I know his tactics were widely regarded as nonsensical and they didn't exactly turn out to be surprisingly effective.

[radddogg]

To sum up....

Had the goal been given then we wouldn't have been chasing an equaliser so neither of the last two Germany goals would have occurred as they were both scored on the counter.

Doggies They could easily have conceded 7 or 8 goals to germany in making the same mistake over and over again. James saved the day. I like him, he was the best player on the team and he reminds me of denzil from only fools and horses

It was pure shite, completely inexcusable from start to finish of the tornament.

A cursory glance suggests England had the team that least represented their nation, so cheated and still sucked.

So the last two goals weren't on the counter?

It is impossible to say how either team would have played after the goal however we can be certain that England wouldn't have been leaving massive gaps at the back try to chase a game.

Yes I agree they were a shambles but from the 1st England goal until the killer 3rd Germany goal we looked dangerous and Germany were rocking, That blunder definitely changed the course of the game, FACT.

Yes sacking Capello may be a kneejerk reaction - I want to knee the jerk in the doggies - he'd be more competent and more suited to being a Postman Pat-o-gram. What a joke having a foreign manager, next we'll be playing foreign players like the Germans!

[618ireland]

A cursory glance suggests England had the team that least represented their nation, so cheated and still sucked.

I'm sort of curious, excuse my ignorance and all but I don't have a huge knowledge of the English team's background. But James I thought was defo an English dude, so too Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Cole, Barry, Gerrard, Johnson & Defoe. I wouldn't have a clue about Upson & Milner but presumed they were English too. Are a few of them Welsh or something

Just wondering more than anything

[Punx0r]

It wouldn't have made a difference, the score would have been 4-2 instead of 4-1. FACT.

England looked convincing for the two minutes when their two goals went in, and then for the first five minutes of the second half. FACT.

You are the only person in England trying to excuse their performance and claim "we could have won it" FACT.

No chance, no way, no how. When Germany's first goal went in it became unlikely England would win. Once the second went in it was game over. FACT.

You'll likely notice I've used factual evidence to support my argument

[Punx0r]

Let's just say the England team drew heavily on people of African descent. It's hardly a detailed study, but just a cursory observation from the teams I have seen playing, most are made of people who look like the people from the country the team represents.

I'm not offering it as an explanation of their performance, just a casual observation.

[Limecat]

A cursory glance suggests England had the team that least represented their nation, so cheated and still sucked.

How do you mean? They got off their arse and ran about for 90 minutes? That's more than the dole scrounging fine china of this nation have done in YEARS! Strangely, no-one of Polish decent in there either, you can't say the same for the non-'previously known as Corgi' gas lot can you?

So the last two goals weren't on the counter?

It is impossible to say how either team would have played after the goal however we can be certain that England wouldn't have been leaving massive gaps at the back try to chase a game.

Yes I agree they were a shambles but from the 1st England goal until the killer 3rd Germany goal we looked dangerous and Germany were rocking, That blunder definitely changed the course of the game, FACT.

Yes sacking Capello may be a kneejerk reaction - I want to knee the jerk in the doggies - he'd be more competent and more suited to being a Postman Pat-o-gram. What a joke having a foreign manager, next we'll be playing foreign players like the Germans!

How would England have certainly NOT been leaving massive holes at the back? You did see the first two goals?

It wasn't a shambles as people are saying. It's the fact it was the Germans that people are over-reactiing. They went out to a team with a HUGE history of emi finals as a minimum. Fair plays.

[618ireland]

Let's just say the England team drew heavily on people of African descent. It's hardly a detailed study, but just a cursory observation from the teams I have seen playing, most are made of people who look like the people from the country the team represents.

I'm not offering it as an explanation of their performance, just a casual observation.

I wasn't expecting that, wish I hadn't asked now to he honest.

[Punx0r]

Not sure I see the problem?

[munky]

Not sure I see the problem?

interesting that you chose the word 'casual' to put before 'observation'.

I can think of another word its commonly used alongside thats pretty apt to your comment too. Begins with an R...

[radddogg]

It wouldn't have made a difference, the score would have been 4-2 instead of 4-1. FACT.

England looked convincing for the two minutes when their two goals went in, and then for the first five minutes of the second half. FACT.

You are the only person in England trying to excuse their performance and claim "we could have won it" FACT.

No chance, no way, no how. When Germany's first goal went in it became unlikely England would win. Once the second went in it was game over. FACT.

You'll likely notice I've used factual evidence to support my argument

There are no facts there?

I'm not excusing the performance it was dire.

I don't know why I'm even engaging in this debate anyway, I couldn't care less really. I love football but watching England is painful and embarrassing. Roll on the champs league qualifiers.

[Null_Byte]

Ahh good to see the money the english team get was really well spent, as predicted utter failure once again.

I seem to remember being forced to play kickball as a child, as i recall we didn't lose by 4 goals. Maybe they should use primary children for the next england team? They are a lot cheaper and able to put the ball in the other sides net, or alternative stop the ball going into their net, which I understand is the point of the game. Do you think anybody has told the england coach this? maybe that is the issue.

I absolutely love the excuses, wrong type of ball, if this, if that..
If they were any good at the game, we would of won, it is as simple as that

Honestly what a joke, they should ditch the team and the coach and start scouting some of the clubs for some new blood that can actually play the fricking game instead of shagging each others wives and crashing fast cars - or give up and play a sport we are actually good at, like.....erm...

[618ireland]

. I love football but watching England is painful and embarrassing. Roll on the champs league qualifiers.

I'm half looking forward to winter evenings watching Spanish, champions league and some Premiership matches, sad but true

[Limecat]

It wouldn't have made a difference, the score would have been 4-2 instead of 4-1. FACT.

England looked convincing for the two minutes when their two goals went in, and then for the first five minutes of the second half. FACT.

You are the only person in England trying to excuse their performance and claim "we could have won it" FACT.

No chance, no way, no how. When Germany's first goal went in it became unlikely England would win. Once the second went in it was game over. FACT.

You'll likely notice I've used factual evidence to support my argument

I assume that's a mild trolling? Typing FACT doesn't make something a FACT.

The score could have been different but it is all a side issue now. I think if the goal had stood, as it should have done, then things COULD have been different. No doubt the ref was aware at half time that it was a goal, I was confident a soft decision would have been given if someone went down like a sack of poo.

There wasn't a fan in the country at 2-0 down that wouldn't have taken 2-1 at half time, likewise, when that second goal went in there wasn't anyone that had a feeling that they wouldn't do it.

The back line was ripped to bits time and time again, slow defenders TBH.

When Terry lost the ball I shouted 'Oh f**k!' I kept shouting it as they nailed the left flank, it was only at the end I said 'Sorted' but then the ball was played over and someone ghosted in from off camera (you would see that live) and then my arse fell out.

I am not the only person in England trying to 'excuse the performance' but I may be the the only person that admits they were outplayed and the overall performance wasn't as bad as is being made out, the possession was there, the midfield were great IMO but the back line were poor, as was James. Rooney had the touch of a rapist. You cannot say the performance was crap when they had them massively on the back foot for a fair period, when a goal was wrongly ruled out and they hit the bar twice (one from a wrongly deemed offside!). It wasn't the disaster that is being made out. OK, they lost, guess what? It happens. England do not have a devine right to roll teams over.

Let's just say the England team drew heavily on people of African descent. It's hardly a detailed study, but just a cursory observation from the teams I have seen playing, most are made of people who look like the people from the country the team represents.

I'm not offering it as an explanation of their performance, just a casual observation.

People of African decent? Who?

Have you looked at the German team? They were more 'foreign' that the England team were.

How did you view the USA team by the way? Did any of their players look, or indeed sound, foreign? How does that support your argument? They are probably the most racially diverse country at the World Cup. Should they all be 18 stone fat badgers that instead of drinking water eat a burger and smoke a tab?

[radddogg]

Not sure I see the problem?

interesting that you chose the word 'casual' to put before 'observation'.

I can think of another word its commonly used alongside thats pretty apt to your comment too. Begins with an R...

I thought that too. If you look at Defoe, Cole and Heskey and for one moment questioned their origins then you're inherently racist.

Please

[radddogg]

give up and play a sport we are actually good at, like.....erm...

....bitching about football on forums?

[Limecat]

Ahh good to see the money the english team get was really well spent, as predicted utter failure once again.

I seem to remember being forced to play kickball as a child, as i recall we didn't lose by 4 goals. Maybe they should use primary children for the next england team? They are a lot cheaper and able to put the ball in the other sides net, or alternative stop the ball going into their net, which I understand is the point of the game. Do you think anybody has told the england coach this? maybe that is the issue.

I absolutely love the excuses, wrong type of ball, if this, if that..
If they were any good at the game, we would of won, it is as simple as that

Honestly what a joke, they should ditch the team and the coach and start scouting some of the clubs for some new blood that can actually play the fricking game instead of shagging each others wives and crashing fast cars - or give up and play a sport we are actually good at, like.....erm...

You are a smart guy but you really should avoid topics that you are ignorant on, it doesn't do you any favour spouting the remnants of the Daily Star.

[noonan mckane]

Was there somebody there seriously suggesting that England have gone out of the World Cup because they had too many players of "African descent"?

It's not because of that. It's because they're not as good as they think. They never have been. English football fans can't understand that just because their players play for Chelsea or Manchester Utd they won't necessarily be able to beat teams containing less wealthy or less famous players. Players who understand how to win. Players who become famous, for winning. Not players who are famous, and are perpetually disappointing.

[Limecat]

radddogg, as a matter of interest if you think Cappello should go (I bet you weren't saying that during qualifying!) then who would you have?

Go on, I fancy a chuckle.

[Null_Byte]

give up and play a sport we are actually good at, like.....erm...

....bitching about football on forums?

I was going to say complaining, but I thought it was too clichéd. Then I tried to think of something we were actually good at. But then I realised we are just logger at everything.

I'm sure "we" could be if "we" had the inclination, but it is probably easier to be mediocre and just complain a lot.

Strangely, no-one of Polish decent in there either

I think they are too busy doing real work instead of pratting about in shorts.

You are a smart guy but you really should avoid topics that you are ignorant on, it doesn't do you any favour spouting the remnants of the Daily Star.

I'm not a smart guy, but thanks anyway. It is true I don't know much about feetball, but I do know we suck, we suck every 4 years and have done since 1966. But at no point does anybody just go, "hey we suck, maybe we should get better". Instead it is always an excuse.

It's probably an alien concept to you, but part of the British psyche is to massively understate our potential, and to struggle against all odds to succeed whilst retaining a sense of modesty. But with football it seems to be a case of vocal self denial coupled with massive underperformance and ultimately epic failure

You just never see the sort of arrogance in tennis or cricket (which we also suck at), oh there is tim henman, did he lose again? Yes? oh well never mind.

I always think if you are going to shout about something, you better be able to produce the goods, and England never have.

There are no excuses in competition, you either win, or lose - regardless of how well you play. If you don't win, then you weren't any good. For the money they are paid I'd expect them to be good.

I thought the Daily Star was more your sort of thing tbh.


I should add, it isn't that i hate football, but I hate the hype, I hate that they are overpaid for poor performance, the excuses, the arrogance, the aggression, and the fact that it hogs the entire country for several weeks when everybody with half a brain knows we are going to lose anyway.

It would be different if we won every match, or even came second, then I would appreciate people getting excited. It wouldn't be so bad if they had some humility or just accepted that they aren't very good.

[Limecat]

Are you Munky in disguise?

Posting on a football thread with a self acknowledged lack of understanding on the subject?

Come one Null_Byte, where does the England team go from here? Bearing in mind it isn't all doom and gloom as portrayed as they went out to a good team, seemingly an 'epic fail'? Bearing in mind they didn't even qualify for the Euro's 2 years ago.

Go on, say 'Sack the coach' again. I love that knee-jerk responce from football fans at the best of time but you don't even proclaim to be one?

[Null_Byte]

Are you Munky in disguise?

Posting on a football thread with a self acknowledged lack of understanding on the subject?

Come one Null_Byte, where does the England team go from here? Bearing in mind it isn't all doom and gloom as portrayed as they went out to a good team, seemingly an 'epic fail'? Bearing in mind they didn't even qualify for the Euro's 2 years ago.

Go on, say 'Sack the coach' again. I love that knee-jerk responce from football fans at the best of time but you don't even proclaim to be one?

Sack the whole team, infact shoot them. Put some fear into them. Make them work for their money. This has nothing to do with football, and everything to do with training, talent and psychology.

They obviously have no motivation to win, no training, or no talent. It is as simple as that.

You're making out football to be something special, it isn't, it just a sport, a game with rules. The same rules apply as with any other thing you want to succeed at.

I don't need to know about the offside rule to see they are useless at what they do.

[Limecat]

Ignorance is bliss!

You obviously don't grasp the concept of the sport you are preaching about in a blind manner?Do you know this England team have beaten Germany under the same manager?

isn't that what sport is about? You sound like a generic blow up fan who thinks England turning up warrants a win in itself!

[noonan mckane]

Can I just say that players aren't paid to play for their countries? Theoretically, anyway. They get expenses. It's supposed to be an 'honour', to be 'capped'.

Some of these characters are paid 80 grand A WEEK. Paying them to play international football would just be crass. Most of them just don't want to do it, anyway.

[Null_Byte]

You obviously don't grasp the concept of the sport you are preaching about in a blind manner?

I think you missed the part in my previous post where I said it didn't matter... A good manager probably doesn't know much about what you do, but they still do your appraisal. All they need to know is, did you meet your target, if not why not? Basic stuff.

Do you know this England team have beaten Germany under the same manager?

Did they win the cup? No? Oh ok then, well I'm sure that is really worth disrupting the entire world for.

isn't that what sport is about?

Sport or Competition? Make your mind up. One is only ever about winning. If it isn't a competition it isn't worth getting upset about now is it? Because, in this case, it doesn't matter who wins.

You sound like a generic blow up fan who thinks England turning up warrants a win in itself!

I'm not a fan at all (see previous post) I detest the hype and arrogance. I just think if you are going to talk to talk you had better walk the walk. This is all.

I'm quite happy now England has been knocked out, as it means the country can go back to normal for another 4 years. Wake me up next time they win a cup and I may have a more positive attitude. Maybe.

[Punx0r]

interesting that you chose the word 'casual' to put before 'observation'.

I can think of another word its commonly used alongside thats pretty apt to your comment too. Begins with an R...

Hang on, did you confuse the word "casual" with "causal"?

Anyone who thinks it's abhorent to notice the colour the various world cup teams probably has issues, probably stemming from repressed racism.

[Chin.]

I'm quite happy now England has been knocked out, as it means the country can go back to normal for another 4 years. Wake me up next time they win a cup and I may have a more positive attitude. Maybe.

Amen to that :!:

[TheRealStig]

I could go on for ages about the rubbish that has been typed on this thread, but i wont

It wasnt capello`s fault why we have done sh*t, it was the players. end of
His tactics dont come into this, his tactics seemed to work fine at A.C Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid and in the qualifiers.
For those who are blaming the goal for our loss, your deluding yourselves, fair enough it might have been different, but it wasnt, instead we got hammered
If all of our players played to their full potential we could have beat ze germans and had a good chance of winning it.
Whoever mentioned the fact we have black players, clearly has issues, this has nothing to do with football, the black lads playing for us are just as much english as you.

[SubCat001]

Radders is spot on imo. If the goal is given, then it completely changes the dynamic of the game. Goals change games, that is a fact. That doesn't mean we would have gone onto a glorious victory but it would have changed the way both sides played. If you watch football on a regular basis then you will know that.

There is no escaping we have played poor. Both the players and Capello have to take the responsibility. The players for not performing like they do for their clubs week in week out, and Capello for some poor tactical decisions in this tournament. For example: The German defence, particularly Lahm, struggled against any pace. Why not bring on Wright-Phillips or Lennon at half time and let them run at them. Lahm looked weak, but with Gerrard cutting in, he was only really tested when Ashley Cole got forward.

Doggies They could easily have conceded 7 or 8 goals to Germany in making the same mistake over and over again. James saved the day.

Don't be fooled by Green's handling skills. That's what goal keepers do, they try to stop the ball going in the net . If you base the potential score line on shots on target then England would have won 11-9. But you are right to say that the Germans exploited our weaknesses. Something which Copello and the team failed to address.

A cursory glance suggests England had the team that least represented their nation, so cheated and still sucked.

Are you on crack!!!! That's probably the most ridiculas statement ever. England are one of the few teams that can actually claim to have home grown players. Being born and bred here, as well as playing in the domestic league. 10 of the German 23 were eligible to play for other countries. Including 3 out of their 4 most influential players.

[Limecat]

You obviously don't grasp the concept of the sport you are preaching about in a blind manner?

I think you missed the part in my previous post where I said it didn't matter... A good manager probably doesn't know much about what you do, but they still do your appraisal. All they need to know is, did you meet your target, if not why not? Basic stuff.

What a strange analogy to a football team? Yeah, get Richard Branson to manage England on your thought process?

I suppose no manager has ever been brought into an underperforming/failing company? A company that failed to qualify for a lesser 'target' only 15 hours before hand (10 qualifying games at 90 minutes a piece!) suddenly gets it's piece of the bigger pie?

Still, off your ignorant viewpoint they would deserve the sack on that basis as they have shown a significant and marked improvement using the same staff members?

Did they win the cup? No? Oh ok then, well I'm sure that is really worth disrupting the entire world for.

No, they didn't and in total 31 teams of the 32 that gained qualification to the tournament via merit won't win it. Shock - horror.

Are the other 30 managers going to get sacked too in your World?

I'm not a fan at all (see previous post) I detest the hype and arrogance. I just think if you are going to talk to talk you had better walk the walk. This is all.

I'm quite happy now England has been knocked out, as it means the country can go back to normal for another 4 years. Wake me up next time they win a cup and I may have a more positive attitude. Maybe.

Yes, if you are going to talk the talk, it does help if you can walk the walk as you say. Unfortunately, you have staggered into this thread on crutches, puked all over it and carried on muttering something that makes no sense to the topic in hand then vanished into the bushes with Munky for a drunken kiss and some bumlove. However, as you say, you aren't interested in the topic so it's not surprising!?!

Oh, it's the Euro's in 2012! That's only 2 years away!

*You should have gone for vinegar on those chips Null_Byte, you don't know where my end has been and I just slashed all over them!*

[noonan mckane]

It's true, goals change games. They almost always alter the score, for one thing. Often, the actual result of a game can be decided by who scores the most goals.

(an aside) Did you know that after the 1986 WC quarter final between England and Argentina (the 'hand of god' game) some British bookies refused to pay out to punters who had bet on a 2-1 score to Argentina? It was "morally, a draw." they claimed. I'd have punched my bookie in the face, and told him the punch was "morally, a cuddle."

Anyhooo.....I've a wee feeling about Germany, now. Bookies have Argentina and Brazil joint 7/2 fav, with Spain just behind. Bookies up here are hardly quoting Germany today, but I reckon a lot of dough will be going on them now. Spain are 4//1 today. Expect Germany's odds to be shortened to about the same in the next couple of days.

[Limecat]

I'd have punched my bookie in the face, and told him the punch was "morally, a cuddle."

No, you're Scottish, you would have bottled him and stabbed him with a used needle.

[618ireland]

Many bookies over here paid out on Lampard to score, 'twas 7/2 ish I believe.