They all do that ~ Oh no they don't !

[Marty]

Play nicely its not very christmassy is it

[Limecat]

Bah humbug.

[Null_Byte]

I cant figure out if you're being serious or having a laugh Surely it was obvious John was taking the pi55 with the whole 14,000 knackered Rovers bla bla and did expect anyone to take that as actual fact... right? G.S.O.H required tbh.

I think the way it works is it's only humorous when wayne says it, no matter how offensive or personal it might be, but nobody else is allowed to crack a joke even if it is lighthearted without him throwing his rattle out of the pram. Nothing like consistency in trolling.

Shame as I was enjoying another good read from John

[Limecat]

I cant figure out if you're being serious or having a laugh Surely it was obvious John was taking the pi55 with the whole 14,000 knackered Rovers bla bla and did expect anyone to take that as actual fact... right? G.S.O.H required tbh.

I think the way it works is it's only humorous when wayne says it, no matter how offensive or personal it might be, but nobody else is allowed to crack a joke even if it is lighthearted without him throwing his rattle out of the pram. Nothing like consistency in trolling.

Shame as I was enjoying another good read from John

What I am saying is fact.

Think of me like a beacon of the AA are getting nailed in terms of logistics.

I am happy to keep the forum updated as and when I get updates.

[98Ti]

Well I'm a BBC weather man, and if someone came in and said to me "its raining cats and dogs" I wouldnt turn round and tell em to get their facts right "no, thats actually water, not cats or dogs, I know my sh1t, stick to the facts."

[Limecat]

Well I'm a BBC weather man, and if someone came in and said to me "its raining cats and dogs" I wouldnt turn round and tell em to get their facts right "no, thats actually water, not cats or dogs, I know my sh1t, stick to the facts."

Good for you but this looks slutty...

[98Ti]

Well I'm a BBC weather man, and if someone came in and said to me "its raining cats and dogs" I wouldnt turn round and tell em to get their facts right "no, thats actually water, not cats or dogs, I know my sh1t, stick to the facts."

Good for you but this looks slutty...

Oii, thats my wife biatch. Oh, we're being factual, I should have said gf, nice pic of her though .

[98Ti]

John, nice thread btw! I keep meaning to run down to the auctions to look out for a hgf as a fixer upper, I'm lacking the confidence though as I dont do k-series and wouldnt know when/if one was beyond repair. 45 looks nice btw, oh and I want your garage!

[MGJohn]

John, nice thread btw! I keep meaning to run down to the auctions to look out for a hgf as a fixer upper, I'm lacking the confidence though as I dont do k-series and wouldnt know when/if one was beyond repair. 45 looks nice btw, oh and I want your garage!

Nice to be appreciated. If you're patient you can pick up some real bargains off ebay. I have bought some nice cars off ebay which did not need any attention as well as these problem cars.

These two problem Rover cars I have bought in the past two months off ebay both unseen and untried with known 'HGF' issues ~ One a Rover 25 now running well for my younger son James who has little interest in cars but needed transport and the other this R45 ~ I did so after phoning the vendor and asking a few questions. You can usually tell a genuine person by their responses. I have had bad vibes when phoning some vendors and because of that experience, give them a miss. You can usually tell what's what with a few simple questions.

I look at it this way, say this Rover 45 turned out to be a real no-no lemon. Then I could get most/all my money back by breaking it ~ good alloys with tyres and other useful stuff ~ then weigh the rest of the car in for scrap value. That's my bottom line and if it works out I'm a few quid out of pocket ~ tough ~ tomorrow's another day in my books. So far, by following a few simple guidelines, no problems. It can be a risk but after all, we are not talking large sums ... just a few hundred .... so no really big deal if the worst comes to the worst.

So, on that basis, give it a try ... Good luck ... as DelBoy would say ..

He who dares ....

... and that well know car dealer Arthur Daley would say..

The World is your Lobster my son ...

[MGJohn]

Back Off Topic :~

For the benefit of anyone of a 'pedant' disposition ....

Oh yes, that reported AA 14,000 was the RUNNING TOTAL so far up until about 5 O'Clock ... the rest of the day/night's total call outs will provide a much higher final total ....
...

[ulmenkott]

K-series is a weird thing... being warped from start and the clampig force of the head bolt straghtening it out...
Have nothing to say really.. it's late, im happy i just recovered 16TB of data and being slightly drunk as well =)

cheers! love your posts MGJohn

[MGTurbo]

The AA were called out to a record breaker of over 14,000 breakdown call outs today in these adverse conditions.... every one a K-Series Rover apparently.

PHACT! ~ You better believe it! ...


..

Are these real facts John? I want proof, i cannot see more than half of those breakdowns being K series HGF's, and i really think you should back up your statement with real proof.






































Even i could see you wasnt being serious!

Keep up the good work, i love the K series too, get a good un that's not been abused and enjoy it, the bad always overlooks the good and that's a big shame.

[MGJohn]

NEWSFLASH... Coming up...Top Story of the day :~

Despite up to fifty feet of snow locally, well over two inches in some places actuallly, MGJohn braved the elements to make the 0900 MoT test appointment today ...

I was fairly confident that mechanically, the car would pass but, as always with any recently purchased new car, the emissions were an unknown quantity. Anyway, the car was connected up to the emissions tester and I was pleased to see all the reds quickly change to green with a pass. I took a few snap shots of the screen.

First the Pass document about to be printed out :~



The checking process took several minutes as it was so cold, we believe the Cat had not fully warmed up. Testing my younger son's Rover 25 a few days ago had the Greens all come up immediately ~ it was warmer that day:~





Then the rest of the car was tested. About to test the brakes on the rollers :~



Then up on the ramps to check wheels, exhaust, steering, suspension, brakes etc. This test station uses a one man operation where those tests usually requiring a helper are done automatically on these special ramps... fascinating to watch it do its stuff :~



One advisory, a dig in one of the tyres but not a fail... someone had pinched it on a kerb I guess.

Car drives really well ... well pleased with the result... delighted in fact.

Another tidy old Rover lives on .... Good eh...

[Roger Red Hat]

There's a valid reason the cylinder head gasket is a weak spot .... IN ANY ENGINE ..

If say the block or head were the weak spot and the gasket uber strong ..... Don't go there.

More pictures coming up ...

i ment on any engine! =p

ignore limecat John, he does it just to wind people up, and is very successful at it..

good work on the car mind you! coming along super well! i keep meaning to grab myself a no tax/test HGF k series off ebay to play about with, but i always seem to miss them

[MGJohn]

.......

good work on the car mind you! coming along super well! i keep meaning to grab myself a no tax/test HGF k series off ebay to play about with, but i always seem to miss them

He who dares ....

ignore limecat John, he does it just to wind people up, and is very successful at it..

He'll never wind me up ~ I've seen how his various contributions have been so well "appreciated" on some of the various web sites I visit.

What puzzles me is his lack of humour ... even his attempts at humour fail miserably with me ... lets bung him a few smileys to cheer him up... a smile costs nowt and can go a long way ....

Here we go : Have some of these...







There that's done it .... sorted...

Getting to like this Rover 45 quite a bit. It handled today's snow conditions very well indeed, unlike some other cars out there this morning.

Think I'll go into hibernation. Someone wake me up when it's warmer... First week of March will do nicely. ..
..

[rovex]

Funny really, ive had no problem with K series head gaskets. Ive blown 2 on D series, one K had a leaky radiator for ages and overheated causing something to fail, but no spontaneous HGF.

The '94 214 i currently have has been ragged senseless and hasnt been serviced, at all, for 3 years, but goes really well. Im giving it away in a week or so because i have bought a ZT and dont want to spend any money on it (MOT runs out in mid Jan). Admittedly it was a spare car while i had my 420, but its been used daily now for a good few months, and was my daily drive for over a year before i had the 420

[syzsounds]

Funny really, ive had no problem with K series head gaskets. Ive blown 2 on D series, one K had a leaky radiator for ages and overheated causing something to fail, but no spontaneous HGF.

The '94 214 i currently have has been ragged senseless and hasnt been serviced, at all, for 3 years, but goes really well. Im giving it away in a week or so because i have bought a ZT and dont want to spend any money on it (MOT runs out in mid Jan). Admittedly it was a spare car while i had my 420, but its been used daily now for a good few months, and was my daily drive for over a year before i had the 420

Thats one of the biggest problems , Unless your on an owner/enthusiasts site like this one you will never hear of good cars , Only bad ones.
The every Bill, Bob and Robert will elaborate on that story and Rovers name got slated for head gaskets because of the K series.

Shame really.

[rovex]

Even on enthusiast sites you get a bad impression. I researched getting a Diesel ZT before i bought my 135+, but from the info gleaned from .org, i almost thought twice. You do feel the love people have for them, but the failings really come through as well, like £1000 clutch and flywheel failure bills...

[Punx0r]

Everything is relative though. That sort of money would be cheap compared to similar repair on many modern family cars.

[Limecat]

Even on enthusiast sites you get a bad impression. I researched getting a Diesel ZT before i bought my 135+, but from the info gleaned from .org, i almost thought twice. You do feel the love people have for them, but the failings really come through as well, like £1000 clutch and flywheel failure bills...

Spot on. Saying that .org struck me more about keeping a car going whereas here is about tuning a car so you get a different mindset of people.

Common faults aren't just rumour, they start from some sort of fact. K series have a bad reputation and fail because they are crap compared to other engines out there (in terms of longevity), there is no denying that. I haven't had one fail but I know people who have. They have their benefits but to Joe Public they aren't interested in them, so they get a kicking.

The ONLY car I can think of with a worse reputation for headgaskets is the Renault 5 Turbo and I have owned 3, all tuned, one of which to a VERY serious extent but when I melted a piston, buggered a stage 7 race head, knackered the turbo etc the headgasket was still fine upon removal (well, off an inspection anyway!). That doesn't mean the reputation is false though. Just as if someone googled it and came across RTOC which, for me is by FAR the most technically amazing site going (then MIG and Vauxsport), after paying £15 to join they would find far more common faults and run a country mile.

Oh, it's a £1k for a cambelt change (not repair) on a Clio V6.

[rovex]

All cars have issues. I wanted a diesel because of economy and, well just for a change. I thought about a Mondeo (yes i know, boring..) because they are cheap and plentiful, but by all accounts there are cam belt issues, and engine mounting issues especially on the 130 version.

'Head gasket failure' seems to put the fear of god in people, but replacing one is no more expensive than a cambelt change on many cars, far less than a cam belt failure and less than a diesel fuel pump, or a failed dual mass flywheel.. All are common on many models.

[Din]

I know its slightly off topic

But as said, all things are relative... i often cringe when a service adviser rings a customer when there BMW is in for service.. for example an e53 X5 3.0D... get nigh on to that magic 100k mark and most need alot of attention.

Common service items include,

Brakes, discs and pads often front and rear,
Front control arm bushes, split/perished.
Upon lowering the air suspension the rear lower balljoints and upper wishbone ball joints normally have exessive play...
A loud clonk from the back indicates the subframe bushes have fallen apart..

Ok so some small common issues... but at £100.00 an hour labour, price of parts is fairly high, all the suspension work requires a four wheel alignment at about £250.00 (can take a good 2hrs)..plus the already expensive service cost plus perhaps a coolant and brake fluid change...

Oh and the killer is if its worn the tyres to the cords on the inner edges due to the shot rear suspension...

I have heard service adviser giving the custermer the bad news... "after a 10% discount sir that comes to £3548.96"

The worrying thing is sometimes they just go "ok, get it done"

Relative indeed, i could not afford to run a car at all let alone two if i couldnt do all the work on it myself

[Limecat]

£100 p/h in Swindon at BMW?

It was more than that in Knutsford (Cheshire) 5 years ago.

[Din]

£100 p/h in Swindon at BMW?

It was more than that in Knutsford (Cheshire) 5 years ago.

Yep, just shy of i think at the moment !

[Limecat]

£100 p/h in Swindon at BMW?

It was more than that in Knutsford (Cheshire) 5 years ago.

Yep, just shy of i think at the moment !

Thinking about it, it is more than 5 years as my mate started as a trainee there and had on and off stint's with going to America and back due to a nutty bird (he even went back after she broke the patio table over his head! ) and his grumble was that he was an apprentice but the bills were charginging over £100 an hour and that with reflection must be near on 7 years ago? He runs his own business now though. BMW take the tripe n onions but that's the case with any 'service sector' where you need a stamp, GSR gas engineers take the tripe n onions far more.

[MGJohn]

Don't it annoy ya, when something so simple has a couple of bolts that weren't tightened would make people think that coolant loss would be HG failure..

Same as me, on my K Series the coolant is spotless can even see the level on the tank.. The proper red/orange colour (OAT).. and doesn't leak at all.. Just shows ya if the engine has been well looked after it wont give you any problems (that's my motto)!!!

Nice work John..

Thanks... Here's the Coolant Expansion Bottle on my MGZS120+ which I bought new in May 2003.



This is one of the things I like to see and am careful about ... condition of coolant in the engine's cooling system. Keep yours like this and you can immediately check level at a glance.

Because all cooolant degrades in time, all manufacturers recommend regular draining and replacement. Few owners bother and can those that do be certain that their car has been treated correctly when entrusting the work to £120 per hour + VAT professionals? Thus, as it degrades it does not protect the engine from the very low temperatures like we had a few weeks ago. Provided you renew ( not just top up ) the coolant as recommended, you will not be one of the many 100s of folks who are now looking for a replacement engine in their cars this winter. One of the several Rescue services ( wont mention which one as its a touchy subject with a certain "acidic pussey" who lurks on car sites ... ... but it was not 'that' one ... ), was in the news on TV giving details of all those frozen engines they had been called out to attend during the past month or so. There will always be car users who learn the hard way. I can believe that statement as the several car sites I visited are full of Frozen Engine tales of woe. I bet all the roadside rescue operators have similar stories to tell.

Although there are some more pedantic types who do not, I quite like threads like this which can stray off topic. All can learn when this happens and that's why I do not worry when threads stray.

Back on topic, have driven this Rover 45 for well over 200 miles now and I am delighted with it. The car has only 61,000 miles showing and that is supported by the VOSA MoT data. With only the 1.4 K-Series compared to the very similar MGZS 1.8 I've been used, I anticipated a big difference in power available. Hardly noticed it. It is not as fast as the MG ZS obviously but, given normal driving conditions, I doubt there would be much if any difference in point to point journey times. Maybe with a full passenger and boot load then it would show, but otherwise very little difference.

Nice little car...
..

[rovex]

Just HOW do you get the cooling system that clean? The one in my mostly ignored 214 is almost that clean, but the one in my new ZT diesel isnt, despite a full proven service history.

[Leopold]

Just HOW do you get the cooling system that clean? The one in my mostly ignored 214 is almost that clean, but the one in my new ZT diesel isnt, despite a full proven service history.

Mine is exactly the same as MGjohn's spotless.. I do know its been regularly renewed when needed and using the correct OAT coolant mixture..

[MGTurbo]

Our 1.4 ZR has a spotless tank of OAT anti-freeze too.

The biggest difference between the 1.4 and 1.8 is obviously the torque, the 1.4 does have to be worked quite hard to make decent progress, the 1.8 is much more effortless. Both brilliant, under-rated engines.

[MGJohn]

Just HOW do you get the cooling system that clean? The one in my mostly ignored 214 is almost that clean, but the one in my new ZT diesel isnt, despite a full proven service history.

It is my way with cars that more often than not, the engines and key parts of my car are cleaner than the paintwork. Priorities ...

Get yourself down to your local car breakers and lift a few Rover Bonnets. You may strike lucky and find a really clean or new Coolant Expansion Bottle. Remove the best one you can find and give it a good clean with petrol or some engine degreasant. Be careful if using petrol ~ no fags ~ some folks do you know...

Neat TFR ( Traffic Film Remover ) left inside ( block up the holes ) and given the occasional shake up will help clean the insides. The occasional good shaking helps. Leave that TFR inside for a day or so. I would not leave neat petrol in so long though mainly for safety reasons.

Then if there's still some dirt inside, a stout wire with some cloth worked around inside will get most of that. Tie a length of string on the cloth so that it can be retrieved when its done its job. Then wash the bottle out and soak overnight inside and out in a weak bleach solution.

Sounds like a lot of work but, it's not. There again, if you're a bit flush.... buy a new one...they are only £42.35 ( Only ... ... Rimmer Bros = Tank-radiator expansion - Genuine MG Rover With coolant sensor ) ... Or, a good used one from a breaker £3....

[Punx0r]

K series have a bad reputation and fail because they are crap compared to other engines out there (in terms of longevity), there is no denying that.

In terms of HGF then yes, the failure rate is quite high. But other than that (and VVC mechs on that particular model) the engines are reliable and durable. They certainly don't need a rebuild at 100k for example.

[Limecat]

K series have a bad reputation and fail because they are crap compared to other engines out there (in terms of longevity), there is no denying that.

In terms of HGF then yes, the failure rate is quite high. But other than that (and VVC mechs on that particular model) the engines are reliable and durable. They certainly don't need a rebuild at 100k for example.

True but as I say it is all relative and your average driver doesn't want those problems so it's hardly surprising they opted not to buy K series powered cars.

As for MG Johns poor bait, well; the AA's resources were again on their arse on the 22/12, 29/12, 30/12 but hey, what do I know? I only get the updates...STILL. It's based on fact not speculation.

[Stealth213S]

I've always said, but seem to be argued with every time even on Rover forums, that the K-series HGF is caused by another factor. They never just go on their own, they might not take that much to go, but there has to be something.

pre-2000 Rovers I'm fairly sure all had steel Llanelli Radiators which I'm convinced were the weak spot in the system because they rotted internally and sent sediment round the system blocking the little bleed valve on the inlet manifold.
I had this on my first Metro when I replaced the radiator, I couldn't bleed it for the life of me. Three local garages said HGF without even looking at it and wouldn't entertain the idea that it wasn't, but thankfully an older guy at the place I bought the rad looked at it and was convinced it wasn't HGF - Good job he did.
Somewhere on the internet I dug up a thread that suggested blowing down the pipe to the bleed valve on the inlet manifold, which I did and found it was blocked. So one inlet manifold gasket and a bit of cleaning on the valve later and the engine bled perfectly first time, No HGF.

I still reckon that 36.83% (statistic made up for the benefit of Limecat, with no evidence to substantiate) of all K-series HGF are actually blocked bleed valves on the inlet manifold rather than HGF.
If that valve is blocked, then you'll be trying to run an engine with a head full of air rather than coolant!

More worrying is repeat HGF. If a head gasket goes again within a short space of time, then the answer has to be that the repair wasn't done properly. Either the HGF was repaired but the factor that caused it wasn't, or the overheating had been so bad that the head/block shouldn't have been repaired - something the garage doing the work should have spotted.

I could see MG John's orginal post was meant tongue in cheek with blatently made-up statistics.

[Punx0r]

I agree, many are caused by other factors, but many do just go. I'm thinking here of the elastomer strings detatching from the metal shim on some headgaskets.

I understand that little valve being blocked causing bleeding problems, but not HGF. How would air get into the system?

[Stealth213S]

When servicing doing a coolant change or changing a rad or water-pump.

If the valve is blocked then someone may think that the system is bled when it isn't, which then overheats the most vulnerable part - the head.

Although, I'm more meaning that it causing bleeding problems can lead to an incorrect diagnosis of HGF when there isn't, as in my Metro's case.