what is this crap country coming to

[Null_Byte]

The human race is greedy and selfish by nature. Capitalism is based on the principle that 90% of the people get shafted 90% of the time to make the 10% rich.

What we have, is the society we deserve.

Even the point of this thread is selfish. It boils down to "Why should I have X while he gets Y?". This is not born out of concerns for equality, this stems from jealousy.

I very much doubt anybody here, if offered the choice between a tax break on their earnings or contributing to the welfare system, would choose the later. Given that, why do we expect people not to cheat the system or advance their personal situation? Greed is universal.

The sad truth of the matter is that banks and financial institutions do far more damage to the economy than all the scroungers and cheaters in the world put together. Or to put it another way, we are all being bent over and shafted deep and hard, but the only thing we are complaining about is the colour of the carpet.

It doesn't matter what government is in power, any difference they make is inconsequential in real terms.

The only way to drastically change society, is to drastically change our attitudes - and I'm afraid we are all a little too comfortable with our lives of voluntary enslavement for that.

[Punx0r]

That sounds like you're about to segway into a whole "year zero" thing

[*ASHY*]

It's nothing to do with jealousy, I'm fed up of my hard earned being wasted. I would gladly contribute extra to the national health for British citizens, but it won't get there. I'm sick of money being wasted on fighting wars, cripes the amount they spend on that is unreal. Yet the poor soldiers who lose their limbs and will suffer for the rest of their lives get massively shafted for it while mr foreigner comes over and practically gets it thrown at him.
Why are we having massive cuts here there and everywhere and go sending billions out of the country, lets get straight here first instead of trying to look good to the world by doling out billions here there and everywhere.

[Punx0r]

I'm torn there, because I see the logic of not frittering away money overseas. But, genuine acts of charity are a noble thing, and is anyone ever too hard up for it? Lot's of people have had to make cutbacks in their personal finances (heating, food etc), but will still put something in the Remembrance Day collection pot.

[*ASHY*]

I'm torn there, because I see the logic of not frittering away money overseas. But, genuine acts of charity are a noble thing, and is anyone ever too hard up for it? Lot's of people have had to make cutbacks in their personal finances (heating, food etc), but will still put something in the Remembrance Day collection pot.

I will always give to the genuinely less well off. Regularly contribute to charities/events etc, but as long as I'm sure it will end up where it belongs.
I take offense at my money being unwillingly extracted and lining some other swindling gits pockets. Take a look at the expenses scandal and that was OUR government and OUR money!

[Semproxion]

I'm torn there, because I see the logic of not frittering away money overseas. But, genuine acts of charity are a noble thing, and is anyone ever too hard up for it? Lot's of people have had to make cutbacks in their personal finances (heating, food etc), but will still put something in the Remembrance Day collection pot.

I see what you're saying but most of the money given by OUR government in "aid" is given to countries that don't NEED it.

The UK government gave one country 650 million iirc. This country has it's own NUCLEAR WEAPONS programme. If they can afford such a programme then they don't need our funding.

[*ASHY*]

I'm torn there, because I see the logic of not frittering away money overseas. But, genuine acts of charity are a noble thing, and is anyone ever too hard up for it? Lot's of people have had to make cutbacks in their personal finances (heating, food etc), but will still put something in the Remembrance Day collection pot.

I see what you're saying but most of the money given by OUR government in "aid" is given to countries that don't NEED it.

The UK government gave one country 650 million iirc.

Yes and compare that to how much they spend on the NHS for it's own citizens. They try to cut back millions on the NHS, something that is without a doubt underfunded and absolutely essential, yet they then go and fritter away much more on something else, it really makes me angry If it wasn't for the charities that exist to bolster up the NHS, it would be a lot worse, so we end up paying twice for the same thing anyway.

[Marty]

Its typical of this country oh let's give away millions to another country that we have shafted out of our people through fuel,tobacco, and general tax but that ok our country can go short but the good old brittish people will start a charity and give some of the money away they have left after we have already shafted them to top up the main things like health care and that makes me sick


Its like VAT that was introduced to pay of a loan this country had the last payment on the loan for full re-payment was 2007 so why the fook we still got VAT its because we are happy to pay it and when it went down to help us to 15% due to the logger state this country was in even though they where still pledging millions to give away to other countrys but the minute we start to recover they rub there hands together and whack it upto 20% like no one saw that coming so they are getting back the money they lost in the drop and will now continue to get an extra 2.5% from now on they not stupid are they but us prats are for putting up with it what a logger country the minute my kids are older and my parents are gone my white arse is out of here

[TheRealStig]

Its typical of this country oh let's give away millions to another country that we have shafted out of our people through fuel,tobacco, and general tax but that ok our country can go short but the good old brittish people will start a charity and give some of the money away they have left after we have already shafted them to top up the main things like health care and that makes me sick

RT's very own Alf Garnet

[MGJohn]

I tend to agree, but playing devils advocate here, we did invade most of the countries that the illegals are coming from in the first place, and often destroyed those countries resources and political systems.

All of which happened well over a century, well before you, I or even our grandparents were born. Why should this country be made to pay now for decisions and actions taken in the 18/19th century. Why should we be made to make restitution to people whom these acts do not affect them in this time?

Do you think that if you commited a crime now that your great-grandchild should be punished for it ?

+1 look at the atrocities germany caused and that was far more recent than the building of the british empire, yet you dont see any one saying "oh we best not by a VW their grandfathers killed jews you know"

... and those same grandfathers tried to kill me as a small boy in London's East End in the 1940s. I clearly remember my mother grabbing me and taking shelter crouching under the stairs when the siren Air Raid alerts went off. As a two and three year old it was all great fun and vivid memories still today. Most vivid memory, grabbing my black and white kitten and taking it down the steps into the Anderson Shelter in the bottom of the garden and as soon as I was fully in, the kitten would make a bolt for it up the steps and out before I could close the door so I had to do the whole thing over again. Another vivid memeory ~ it was always a cloudless sunny day too ...

There was a time when buying a German or Japanese vehicle was a difinite no-no with most folks back in those days soon after the war even well into the 1960s when memories were still fresh in the minds of many folks here in the UK.

Full circle .... Now buying a Rover or MG instead of a VW or BMW is a no-no for far too many Brits.... It is no mere coincidence or bad luck that this nation is now in deep financial excrement. Almost certainly far worse than those we entrust the well being of the Nation will ever let on.
..

[Marty]

Its typical of this country oh let's give away millions to another country that we have shafted out of our people through fuel,tobacco, and general tax but that ok our country can go short but the good old brittish people will start a charity and give some of the money away they have left after we have already shafted them to top up the main things like health care and that makes me sick

RT's very own Alf Garnet

cheeky bugger

[Punx0r]

I see what you're saying but most of the money given by OUR government in "aid" is given to countries that don't NEED it.

The UK government gave one country 650 million iirc. This country has it's own NUCLEAR WEAPONS programme. If they can afford such a programme then they don't need our funding.

I completely agree. I'm suspicious that a lot of aid/charity money simply ends up buying some dictator a set of gold bath taps.

However, I like to think that when governments pledge aid, it's with good intentions. My (basic) understanding of these sorts of situations is that various world governments all pledge a certain amount towards a total, and there are implications for international relationships if someone isn't seen to be doing their bit.

[Marty]

I see what you're saying but most of the money given by OUR government in "aid" is given to countries that don't NEED it.

The UK government gave one country 650 million iirc. This country has it's own NUCLEAR WEAPONS programme. If they can afford such a programme then they don't need our funding.

I completely agree. I'm suspicious that a lot of aid/charity money simply ends up buying some dictator a set of gold bath taps.

However, I like to think that when governments pledge aid, it's with good intentions. My (basic) understanding of these sorts of situations is that various world governments all pledge a certain amount towards a total, and there are implications for international relationships if someone isn't seen to be doing their bit.

Its ok pledging it if you have got it to give and not do it and push the country further in debt to help another country is madnes

So where was the help when we needed it cant say i see anything asking for people to donate to this country and if we do borrow we are one of few who have to pay it back

[Pinkie15]

Its like VAT that was introduced to pay of a loan this country had the last payment on the loan for full re-payment was 2007 so why the fook we still got VAT its because we are happy to pay it and when it went down to help us to 15% due to the logger state this country was in even though they where still pledging millions to give away to other countrys but the minute we start to recover they rub there hands together and whack it upto 20% like no one saw that coming so they are getting back the money they lost in the drop and will now continue to get an extra 2.5% from now on they not stupid are they but us prats are for putting up with it...

I'll give you one snippet on VAT that'll probably turn this whole discussion in a different direction:

EU law - Once a member state introduces VAT to the pricing of an item it CANNOT be removed. Only the rate can be altered.

Having said that the VAT rate in the UK is at worst only about average for EU member states, if not one of the lower rates. Not saying what they did with the rate is right or wrong, just setting it in a wider context.

I didn't know VAT was introduced to pay off a loan. Was that the loans as a result of WWII ??, as I know they were only recently paid off.

But lets face it, once a tax is introduced it never goes away. Income tax was introduced as a means of funding the Napoleonic wars, with parliament voting every year on whether it should remain, or not. Guess we all know what happened with that one.

[Null_Byte]

VAT was introduced as part of the condition for the UK joining the EU. Before we had VAT we had purchase tax, which was a similar thing. To my knowledge there was no involvement of a loan anywhere.

[Semproxion]

Its like VAT that was introduced to pay of a loan this country had the last payment on the loan for full re-payment was 2007 so why the fook we still got VAT its because we are happy to pay it and when it went down to help us to 15% due to the logger state this country was in even though they where still pledging millions to give away to other countrys but the minute we start to recover they rub there hands together and whack it upto 20% like no one saw that coming so they are getting back the money they lost in the drop and will now continue to get an extra 2.5% from now on they not stupid are they but us prats are for putting up with it what a logger country the minute my kids are older and my parents are gone my white arse is out of here

I have to say I also didn't know about VAT being introduced to pay off a loan.

Learn something new everyday.

[Punx0r]

There's a public toll bridge somewhere where the toll was levied in order to repay the construction cost. It got paid off decades ago, but the toll remains

[Marty]

There's a public toll bridge somewhere where the toll was levied in order to repay the construction cost. It got paid off decades ago, but the toll remains

That is understandable as the bridge and road is going to need to be maintained so its simply funding its self and the bridge is serving a purpose all VAT is a tax on tax and it stands for Value Added Tax I'm sorry but where is the value in that and it does nothing more then take more money of you look at the taxes we have

PAYE Tax
VAT
Council Tax
Road Tax
Inheritance Tax
Capital gains tax
Insurance Tax
National insurance
General Tax on everyday items like fuel before VAT is added

May of missed some that's all I could think of at this time of the morning but as you can see there is a few

[Punx0r]

Yep, and even then it's not nearly enough to cover what the government spends

Unfortunately, high taxation is the reality of having public services.

[alexcornwall]

Well i think living in england is awesome.

[Semproxion]

Here's a point to consider though.

In all these cut-backs for public spending, How many MPs have taken pay-cuts or had their pay level frozen like MANY other public sector workers ?

[Marty]

No I bet

Also don't forget about there huge pensions they get and yet the working mans private pensions are not worth a lot and oh the state pension is worth nothing and after a certain year of birth you will not even get one but why do they care they get a big fat pension

[*ASHY*]

There's a public toll bridge somewhere where the toll was levied in order to repay the construction cost. It got paid off decades ago, but the toll remains

That is understandable as the bridge and road is going to need to be maintained so its simply funding its self and the bridge is serving a purpose all VAT is a tax on tax and it stands for Value Added Tax I'm sorry but where is the value in that and it does nothing more then take more money of you look at the taxes we have

PAYE Tax
VAT
Council Tax
Road Tax
Inheritance Tax
Capital gains tax
Insurance Tax
National insurance
General Tax on everyday items like fuel before VAT is added

May of missed some that's all I could think of at this time of the morning but as you can see there is a few

You forgot the fact that most items are imported and therefore subject to import tax/duty, then you pay VAT on it and then you pay it again through income tax.

Oh and if you happen to save all your money, you'll get taxed on it again via any interest earned.

[MGJohn]

Totally Agree, WTF Happened to this country. ?

We allowed and continue to allow all-comers to arrive for the 'benefits' in all senses of the word. Big time benefits like buying the Nation's family silver and other assets at knock down prices, then allowing stripping those assets and benefits in all its multiplicity of forms.

Often with the best of intentions, ongoing bad judgement madness mainly by a party and parties who's short sighted agenda, often partly covert ( hidden ) has enormous longer term harmful effects for the former G and P. Apparently, there will soon be 70 Million people in these small islands... for crying out loud.

Despite what anyone may tell you, it is NOT going to get better, only worse, much worse.

Guess who'll pick up the tab in more ways than one ... Got it in one!
..