2014 Brembodge Group Buy

[ttrw2]

There's no probs asking questions on here, we're all friends....

Monday bump.

Cheers
Rob

[1994 BRG Coupe]

Would there be any benefit to fitting the Landrover master cylinder with this kit?

[ttrw2]

What is the diameter of it?

[stefaclese]

25.1mm iirc

[stuballs]

Rob I remember from your development thread that you designed this kit with reference to the master cylinder - caliper piston ratio to maintain decent pedal travel (I. E. Not the foot on the floor effect you get with the 282mm upgrade). Can anyone (Greg?) comment on pedal travel in reference to 262mm and/or 282mm setup?

[ttrw2]

There's lots of talk of getting the area ratios spot-on. I thought it was of uber importance initally too. However, as shown below the standard MG-Rover range covers ratios of 5.17 to 5.90. So I think it's important to be IN this range (i.e. not half or double!) but you don't have to be spot-on. And having seen so many stuff on here about brake-bleeding problems especially with the ABS'd cars, I think this is a bigger source of the problems people report on the 282mm setup.

To put some numbers to the kit:

The Brembo calipers are 38 & 42mm pistons, total piston area 5039mm2.
The standard 220 Coupe Turbo piston is 53.9mm, total piston area 4563mm2.
The MG ZR160/ZS180 piston is 57.0mm, total piston area 5104mm2.
The Roversport AP calipers are 38.1 & 41.3mm pistons, total piston area 4959mm2.

Standard m/cyl diameter is 23.8mm from 1994 onwards (and for all ABS, I believe), so total m/cyl area 890mm2.

Therefore with a standard m/cyl the master:slave ratio is:

5.17 for the standard (262mm disc) setup
5.73 for the MG ZS/ZR (282mm disc) setup
5.66 for the Brembodge setup

If you add a 25.4 m/cyl (1") - total m/cyl area 1013mm2 - the Brembodge master:slave ratio becomes 4.97. So much closer to stock 220 Coupe Turbo.

The Roversport setup uses the 1" m/cyl too, giving a ratio of 4.90.

But to throw this into perspective, a non-ABS R8 214 has the same 53.9mm caliper pistons as the 220, but on a 22.2mm m/cyl, so master:slave ratio of 5.90. And this had the sweetest pedal feel of all the MG-Rovers I've owned, without the pedal being long or soft.

The Brembodge kit at 5.66 is bang in the middle of this range.

Alternatively, considering brake torque with the variety of setups, assuming 50kg.f input to pedal and pads of 0.32 mu :

Brembodge Kit (326mm disc/38 & 42mm pistons) - standard master cylinder (23.8mm) - 993Nm
Roversport AP setup - 1" m/cyl - 325mm disc -CP3307 caliper (38.1 & 41.3mm pistons) - 844Nm
MG ZR160/ZS180 setup - 282mm disc - 57.0mm piston - standard master cylinder (23.8mm) - 866Nm
Std 220 Coupe Turbo setup - 262mm disc - 53.9mm piston - standard master cylinder (23.8mm) - 695Nm
Std R8 214 setup - 238mm disc - 53.9mm piston - 22.2mm master cylinder - 721Nm
Brembodge Kit (326mm disc/38&42mm pistons) - "LandRover" master cylinder (25.4mm) - 878Nm

The most powerful setup of the lot is the Brembodge kit on the standard 23.8mm m/cyl - so why wouldn't you take that option?

[stuballs]

[WonderSheep]

Stu remember that the BRM uses the Tomcat Race car M/C and servo combo so you may want to look at changing that to a standard item?

[stuballs]

Stu remember that the BRM uses the Tomcat Race car M/C and servo combo so you may want to look at changing that to a standard item?

I was going to see how it is first. I figure no point changing it if it works. Pedal travel on the 282mm setup is ridiculous but I always suspected it was at least partially a bleeding problem.

[ttrw2]

Gents,

Shall we move this GB forward to balance collection stage? If you could aim to send me the outstanding balance by Wednesday after next (so 1st Oct) using the same method you used for deposit then I'll order the bits.

Any new joiners can pay full balance up to then too.

Cheers
Rob

[ttrw2]

Table in first post updated

[ferg620Ti]

Hi, sorry, I know it's not up there so I think I know the answer but would the 800 ones for example fit a 600? I'd like to upgrade my ti brakes.

[ttrw2]

I have no idea what you're talking about (sorry).

One balance received so far guys.

[daz500]

Will this be going ahead? I'm planning on paying my balance on Monday evening.

[ttrw2]

Yep, sorry for not making clearer. Balances of £236 in the same method you paid deposit please.

Cheers
Rob

[JRMVVC]

Hi Rob
Just sent the balance of my kit to ya.

Whats the lead time once everyone has paid?

Cheers
Johnny

[ttrw2]

Thanks Johnny, received. First post updated.

It's 3-4 weeks once all payments made.

Cheers
Rob

[Neill]

Hi Rob,

Payment just sent. Now to sort out some Brembo's.

Thanks

Neill

[parker2245]

Balance paid

[ttrw2]

Thanks Neill, thanks Kieran - both received.

Updated table in first post.

[KieranZR]

Hi, I would like in on this!
What else do I need with this kit, just callipers and pads?

[daz500]

I have just sent final payment - sorry for the delay !

[JRMVVC]

Hi Kieran

You just need the calipers & pads to complete the conversion, although make sure you get the Brembo's from a 406 V6 coupe, not the near identical calipers from the Fiat Turbo or Evo's. I would also go for a set of HEL stainless brake lines form Grant @
GB Enterprises, they will fit the caliper contact better than the standard hoses.

Have a scan through the previous Brembo conversion group buys & you will see what i mean.

Cheers
Johnny

[daz500]

I wonder if Grant will offer a mini group buy for those of us on this list

[ttrw2]

I have just sent final payment - sorry for the delay !

Thanks Daz, updated first post table. Just javisoane to go!

Hi, I would like in on this!
What else do I need with this kit, just callipers and pads?

KieranZR I've sent you a PM, if you want in it's full balance please and it'll have to be promptly - before javisoane - so that we don't hold up the other Group Buyers.

Cheers
Rob

[KieranZR]

Payment sent bud. Got some braided lines waiting to go on too! Now just for callipers and pads!

[ttrw2]

Welcome aboard KieranZR

I've marked you up on table in first post.

Javiseoane, I've sent you a PM - which you've read. Please make contact about the balance before the end of the week. We're placing the order on Monday with or without you.

Thanks,
Rob

[javiseoane]

I have just sent final payment - sorry for the delay Robert!

[ttrw2]

Super, cheers.

That means everyone's payments are in, so I'll order bits today to get a bit of a head start.

Will keep this thread updated with progress, but in the meantime...

***GROUP BUY CLOSED TO NEW ENTRIES***

[daz500]

What did you think the ETA on this is and what brake hoses are needed?

[ttrw2]

3-4 weeks; I'll keep you updated.

The kits designed to work with the standard hoses with banjo fitment on the caliper end - the kit comes with the specific banjo bolt (in stainless) to suit. Some people have had problems getting the banjo to seal on the caliper body as Peugeot spray this area and don't leave a machined spot-face for the crush washer. I've never had these problems or witnessed them, but you can have hoses made-up with the original Peugeot fitting to suit:

Subject: HEL Manufacturing Outlet @ GBE

[ttrw2]

An update for you, Gents:

- Banjos, HT bolts, shims and copper washers here
- Brackets should be done next week > then to powdercoaters
- Discs ready w/c 20th Oct

So I reckon we'll be on-plan to send last week of Oct.

Cheers,
Rob

[daz500]

Great stuff - do you have any final thoughts on a master cylinder upgrade some have carried out in the past i.e. needed or not.

[ttrw2]

As laid-out above mate, I don't see the point.

Time for another update,

- Banjos, HT bolts, shims, discs and copper washers ready
- Still waiting on brackets to be made, then they need to go to powdercoaters. So running about +1 week over plan. But I'm still optimistic I can be shipping these by the end of next week.

Cheers,
Rob

[ttrw2]

Machine-shop has said brackets ready late Thursday, so they'll go in to the powdercoaters on Fri. These are the only things we're waiting on so once available next week I'll be shipping to the addresses you've given me....

JRMVVC and parker2245 please confirm your addresses.

Cheers
Rob