Should Rover release its own Sport (GTi/GSi) models again?

Bjorn · Post by **Bjorn** » Sun May 04, 2003 12:38 pm

Or leave it to MG?

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Sun May 04, 2003 10:47 pm

Leave it to MG - Rover is the brand like Rolls Royce, MG is Rolls's Bentley.

marko · Post by **marko** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:32 pm

They should release 2.5 V6 45s and the RWD 4.6 V8 75s - but with the "Rover" ride/responses/styling tastes rather than the MG ones. There is a market for old-fart mobiles (look how many 620Tis and 800 vitesses there are versus the 200/400s...

) that are usefully quick and refined and it wouldn't cost any additional money or tread on "MG" toes/sales.

Nom · Post by **Nom** » Sat May 24, 2003 4:01 am

Rover should have its own sports models, MG is a fashion accessory range for Rover and can only exist as long as Rover continue to make cars.
Rover are losing sales to other manufacturers because they no longer produce understated cars with sporty engines.
MG are losing sales due to the 'in ya face' image and styling.
Since most new cars are made to order anyway - Can it really be that hard to supply customers with the cars they want ? I'd even pay them if they offered what I want :lol:

The poll between the Rover 25 GTi and MG ZR on mg-rover.org
showed that within the MGR community voting was split and no clear winner emerged.
Nom

ml.williams · Post by **ml.williams** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:42 am

Nom wrote:Rover are losing sales to other manufacturers because they no longer produce understated cars with sporty engines.

MG are losing sales due to the 'in ya face' image and styling.
Nom

err have u seen the sales figures, MGR as a whole is selling more cars and are incresing there sales when the market is falling.

MG arnt lossing sales as there was only the F befor the zeds

rover do need sports models, but fires they have so increase the power out puts of the engine (V6 inperticular) so that the rovers and mg's have diferent outputs.

sharky · Post by **sharky** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:49 am

i think a turbocharged 2.5 straight 6 in a 45 and75 with brand new 'Rover' styling would go down quite well!

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:27 am

I don't think Rover should release GTi/GSi models, all the people that are likely to buy them are buying MG's.

And like Sharky said, they should look at some new styling... Not that theres that much wrong with it, but the last major styling overhaul was back in '96 with the MK3 (I don't consider the 25 a major styling revision).

As for MG, I used to like what they had done to the 25's, but now that everyone and their dog owns a ZR I'm not so keen :roll:

Steve220 · Post by **Steve220** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:49 am

Grant620 wrote:Leave it to MG - Rover is the brand like Rolls Royce, MG is Rolls's Bentley.

Cool

roverspeed · Post by **roverspeed** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:25 pm

I def think they should bring back the sporty rovers, they are a differnet niche to the mg's, subtle and corfortable, i don't think they would tread on mg's toes at all.

Warren

sdebswurf · Post by **sdebswurf** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:38 pm

I thought you could get a Rover25GTi??

GT · Post by GT » Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:11 pm

I've started the thread elsewhere but I think it should be mentioned here...

Take for example, the Rover Streetwise... a fashion statement car, with a unique identity (at the moment), based on the 25 bodyshell, a new Rover logo and with the same choice of engines and power as the MG range.. but still very Rover in design!

This sits in the same bed at the 25GTi, which has the 1.8VVC (ableit at 40 rather than 160 ish Ps), has the leather seats and the spec, but very much Rover rather than MG...

Personally I think there is a place for 'Rover Sport' as there are 2 different markets for 'sports' saloons!

MG covers the sports extreme versions, hardcore suspension setups and in-your-face colours schemes.. which is brilliant if that is what you want!

However, there is a lot ot be said about the 'Sports Exec' which has maybe some finer tuned softer cruising road suspension (for those who dont like their bones rattled), with a choice of power on engines to cater for choices and colour schemes for the more subtle driver.

Styling (given the budget) can also be steered in 2 different directions, one sportier than the standard models, but more subdue than the in-your-face MG versions!

So yes, I think there is a place for the GSi-esque brand again

Post by **Stu** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:53 pm

Most definately.

Same engines as the MG's, but without all the plastic.

25 GTI VVC 160
45 GSI V6 180
75 Vitesse V6 190
75 Something V8 260

All with decent interiors and fairly standard externals. There are a lot of buyers who want the go without all the show.

cerbman · Post by **cerbman** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:46 pm

Yes, Rover should have sporting versions. MG should be sportier still.

jase · Post by **jase** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:12 pm

Stick the following on a car - Cosworth, M, abarth and it looks cool, scary and quick and will be. MG has been promoted as Rovers motorsport side, and for there roadcars that means - a body kit....mmmmm.

Yes its all marketing, and the MG's are v.cool cars but i cant help feeling its undermined the Rover name which at the end of the day means a damn site more.

J

GT · Post by GT » Sun Oct 19, 2003 12:36 pm

MG are more than body-kitted Rovers!

Thats part of the problem, people see it as badge engineering rather than as models in their own right!

No-one questioned Lotus when they have done it... The Lotus Carlton, Sunbeam and Cortina are all very different beasts to drive in Lotus form over their Vauxhal, Talbot and Ford counterparts!

MG have done this to many other brands over the years, Austin, Rover, Wolsey, Austin-Healey and in fat the very first MG was a re-engineered Morris! (Morris Garages). The fact that MG and Rover are currently managed by the same people gives MG the perfect oppertunity to take advantage of some existing models!

A new GSi Rover range could be created with similar handling to the new Streetwise, which is a fine handling car in its own right, whilst still being a different beast to the MG ZR!

jase · Post by **jase** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:07 pm

GT, the lc is one of the fastest and most awesome road cars ever built (unlike the the car its based on), the others were all succesful racing cars, as well as potent road machines (again unlike there base models).

Mg's are good looking and as far as the class goes, very good cars. But as speical as stuff lotus have re-worked? not quite imho.
And id beg to differ on the re-engineering. Decent damping, heavier springs and geomatry changes already used on previous rovers to correct hondas silly ideas isnt ground breaking stuff. unless im missing something?

I suppose our definitions of whats different enough to be different could be different

J

Nom · Post by **Nom** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:00 pm

ml.williams wrote:
Nom wrote:Rover are losing sales to other manufacturers because they no longer produce understated cars with sporty engines.

MG are losing sales due to the 'in ya face' image and styling.
Nom
err have u seen the sales figures, MGR as a whole is selling more cars and are incresing there sales when the market is falling.

MG arnt lossing sales as there was only the F befor the zeds

rover do need sports models, but fires they have so increase the power out puts of the engine (V6 inperticular) so that the rovers and mg's have diferent outputs.

MG and Rover lost one sale... from me... neither could supply me with the car I wanted because I like understated styling with comfort and performance ! Is that such an unlikely combination of requirements ?
The car I wanted was a replacement 25 1.8is auto.
I was offered a 1.6ixl or a ZR120 neither of which fulfilled my needs.

GT · Post by GT » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:26 pm

What about a ZS in the right colour and no body-kits? (entry level 110 and 120)

Subtle, yet handles like any other ZS

Boff · Post by **Boff** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:21 pm

I think mg-rover have made 2 mistakes - As previously mentioned they no longer produce truly understated models (I think the biggest shame is that the 45 is not available in 2.5 KV6 manual form) and I think the relatively underpowered entry-level MG's are a mistake too, for example I don't think the ZT 120 is too credible, a supposed sports saloon which couldn't break away from a Mundano 1.8 LX?

MGJohn · Post by **MGJohn** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:44 pm

Not everybody wants to burn off all the local 'tarted up mobiles'.... although I have to admit I sometimes am ...Guilty M'lud....

From all driver age groups, there are many drivers who would NEVER consider buying a Rover under any circumstances. However, some of these now drive the MG versions of the same cars. Next time you see a ZR on the road, clock the driver. Chances are they are not the sometimes stereotypical MG driver ...... but, someone in their 20s who'd not be seen dead in an R25.

Then there are those who'd like an MG simply for the badge, for the trim, handling etc that goes with it,. but, don't ever need to get to 60mph in under seven seconds (unlike some I could mention ..... again Guilty M'Lud....

)

Listen to other prospective buyers next time you go to a new car showroom.... not just MG-R ones. To the vast majotity of car buyers, things of lesser impotance to me and maybe you, like colour, trim, nice bit of chrome here, bit of leather or wood there etc all play a much larger part in selling cars than 0-60 times to the likes of you and me. So yes, if those 'underpowered and cheaper' entry level cars are not your idea of a proper MG, it is of no consequence. Much more importantly, the figures show that they do attract new blood (first time) MG buyers. If that first new MG is a rewarding experience, chances are they will return for a new one when the time comes to replace the older car. That way, brand loyalty (which often sells many more cars than regular sales tools) can keep the car buyer coming back for more during a whole lifetime's car buying. If those lower spec cars were not available, they'd probably buy a VW, Citroen or, whatever instead .... certainly not a Rover!

So yes, I'm in favour of anything which means more sales for MG-R in an ever increasingly difficult sales environment. It's the bread and butter cars, not the fire breathing V12s etc, which sustain the well being of all the volume car manufacturers.

John

MGJohn · Post by **MGJohn** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:51 pm

IIRC, Audi, VW, Skoda and SEAT sometimes share the same basic components be they body panels, engines etc.......

So my question, why doesnt anybody in the Motoring Media ever accuse THEM of Badge Engineering?

Boff · Post by **Boff** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:55 pm

Good points well put there John. Just can't help thinking that the entry level MG's are that little bit too entry level. Really the ZT shouldn't have anything less than the 2.0V6 IMO but having the 1.4 in the ZR and 1.6 in the ZS seems fairly reasonable.

It seems to me like the motoring media grab every oppurtunity to diss MG-R in favour of these mass produced soulless euro-bland mobiles. It sickens me! :evil:

[/i]

GT · Post by GT » Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:56 pm

I believe quite a large % of Rover75 sales are of the '120' variety... its still a 1.8 engine, and is mainly aimed at those who cant afford a ZT190, as company cars, for which the 120 is a massive tax saving (apparently - I've never looked

)

Phil Mk3 Turbo · Post by **Phil Mk3 Turbo** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:57 pm

sharky620ti wrote:i think a turbocharged 2.5 straight 6 in a 45 and 75 with brand new 'Rover' styling would go down quite well!

Thats more like it, But maybe put it in a 200/25 aswell...

GT · Post by GT » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:06 pm

A lot of discussion seems to be about whether the 200/25 even deserves a Rover badge... as historically only MG and Austin made the small cars 'for the people' whilst Rover built the big engined German beating brutes - a trend the MG-ZT is trying to re-set with the 260 and 385

(and rumours of a 75 Vitesse version of the 260 have also been spread)

Phil Mk3 Turbo · Post by **Phil Mk3 Turbo** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:27 am

GT wrote:A lot of discussion seems to be about whether the 200/25 even deserves a Rover badge...

debadged mine anyway, there sh@t :lol:

Mule · Post by **Mule** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:59 pm

personnally id love to see the return of "sporty" rovers with the understated styling and powerful engines but i suspect its more likely that if there was any change in the cars then i believe MG would just tone down they're bodykits. Rover seems to have settled into its mature/executive image and so have the masses (as reinforced by the look on peoples face when i tell them im 20 and drive a rover). i just dont think it would work.. having said that, what do i know, madonna re-invents herself every couple of months!

tomcat_nz · Post by **tomcat_nz** » Thu May 20, 2004 7:12 am

I would personally like to see sporty Rovers again, but would buy one as my taste runs along the MG line. Agree with all the comments about lack of power in the MG line, however lets face it the standard engine in the "B" was a bit of a non event. Things only got interesting power wise when the V8 came along.

Interesting point, the 220 turbos (coupe & GTI) were originally going to be released as MG's but the company stopped this to make sure focus was on the MG-F.

01dencwe · Post by **01dencwe** » Fri May 21, 2004 12:06 pm

I think rover should do a rwd verion of the gti/gsi with a 2 letre or 2.5 s6 turbo. :twisted:

....but i dont know s**t.....

gingerminger · Post by **gingerminger** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:38 pm

yes they should bring them out because if they dont WHAT am i going to be driving in ten years time as i aint going to pay the inflated price just because its got an MG badge on :wink:

01dencwe · Post by **01dencwe** » Wed May 26, 2004 4:28 am

When did they stop making 220's? I know (i think) they stopped making the hatches in 95 but what about the coupe?

Chers

01dencwe · Post by **01dencwe** » Wed May 26, 2004 4:28 am

When did they stop making 220's? I know (i think) they stopped making the hatches in 95 but what about the coupe? And roughly how many hatchs where made?

Chers

Rovertech 2.0

Should Rover release its own Sport (GTi/GSi) models again?

Should Rover release its own Sport (GTi/GSi) models again?

All IMHO...