Superchargers

sidepants · Post by **sidepants** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:28 pm

just a thought, can a supercharger be applied in place of the turbo on T16 engines? or for that matter any of the rover engines? obviously there will need to be modifications, but wondered if this had been done with any success.

i ask as i'm trying to get my hands on a spare T16 to mess about with and mod on a longterm basis and thought this would answer the lag problem associated with larger turbos.

C2K · Post by **C2K** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:40 pm

And where would it live in the engine bay?

Although I suppose 800 is a bit roomier than a 2/4.

It's possible. It is built for for forced induction after all, but I wouldn't like to think about operating pressures, with or without turbo in conjunction.

Not really worth it, just get a GT series Turbo.

Post by **Punx0r** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:44 pm

I have day-dreamed about one of those dead cheap mini-cooper superchargers from ebay and an 800. The 800 engine bay is nice and big and it could sit where the air con compressor would normally go. Assuming that the direction of rotation would be correct

Aquila · Post by **Aquila** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:59 pm

I've driven both turbo and supercharged cars and the supercharger wins hands-down as far as I am concerned. A supercharged engine feels more 'torquey', with acceleration more measured and less violent than a turbo (having boost from tickover) and power control is far easier. Boost is more easily adjusted and, in certain circumstances, can be changed 'live'.
Loop-scavengers like the Allard-Wade and Wankels like the VW G-Lader do not have directions of rotation and all can be cheat-plated for NOx or Nitro.
Shorrock TC series supers have a switchable electric clutch that allow them to be switched in or out, but being top-mounted, require a very big hole in the bonnet.
Finally, Supers run synchronous or at half engine speed, whereas turbos run at jet engine speeds where oil pressure dips are fatal.

Your choice, mate. Good Luck!

sidepants · Post by **sidepants** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:17 pm

C2K wrote:And where would it live in the engine bay?

it's not necessarily going to be put in a rover at all.

but i take your point, tis tight in there. it's just a general plan to build a powerful engine over time and find a suitable vehicle for it. much like that fantastic MGB

PunxOr wrote:I have day-dreamed about one of those dead cheap mini-cooper superchargers from ebay and an 800.

strangely enough it was a mini supercharger on ebay that made me think about this!

Aquila, you seem to know about superchargers, reckon it'd be hard to convert the engine bits to run a supercharger? anyone else got any ideas/views on this?

Post by **Punx0r** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:47 pm

Normally they bolt into the inlet manifold and feed the engine directly, but I recon you could bolt at ally plate to the underside of those mini chargers with the a hose nipple welded to the plate. You could use an intercooler then too.

An engine with a big laggy turbo and a supercharger for low down boost sounds like a good idea to me (doesn't mean it is though!).

benji_ · Post by **benji_** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:58 pm

I've driven both turbo and supercharged cars and the supercharger wins hands-down as far as I am concerned. A supercharged engine feels more 'torquey', with acceleration more measured and less violent than a turbo (having boost from tickover) and power control is far easier. Boost is more easily adjusted and, in certain circumstances, can be changed 'live'.

Apart from using a smaller pulley to make it spin faster, I didn't think you could adjust the boost on a super charger as it's determined by how fast the engine is revving??? Am I wrong in that asumption?

I thought turbo charging was a more efficient way of making power because it's not mechanically limited? Admitidly super charging is better for short sprints (and that's why they are used on the drag scene) because of it's smoother delivery and instant power, but once up and running the turbo becomes alot more efficient and powerfull because of the characteristics of it.

Aquila · Post by **Aquila** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:17 am

The Garrett V-Series supers have a variable-radius pump pulley that can be changed continuously from half to double camshaft speed and a two-speed output stage. They are designed for the flat-six Lycoming aero engine as fitted to the Piper Twin Commanche for high-altitude work and the Pitts S3A to pull the pilot's ears off in steep climbs...the Pitts at full boost kicks the 250HP Lycoming up to nearly 800HP near sea-level - and I have seen one of these monstrosities run on a top-fueller rail called 'Penetration II'; an 8-litre Hemi Olds engine running nitromethane/methanol and nitrous oxide...3500bhp! Quite an interesting drive, I feel!

Basically, to run any form of boost, you will need dish-top pistons and/or a hemispherical combustion chamber in the cylinder head. The T16 engine has both of these.
Other engines to consider are the later BL 'B' and 'O' engines and the 8-valve Alfa and Lancia twin-cams.
The Mini 'supercharger' is a weedy VW G-Lader that adds about a decent Guinness-fart to the inlet pressure, a Lancia 'Volumex' works on the same principle, is about the same size and kicks in about 1.5 Bar.

Go play!

Funkster · Post by **Funkster** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:29 am

Aquila wrote:The Mini 'supercharger' is a weedy VW G-Lader

Oh no it ain't! The Mini blower is some kind of screw job I think (feel free to correct) but the G-lader is a very different beast - it uses a scroll with a reciprocating displacer but none of the main internal parts spin round at all.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~paulx ... argers.htm

Mad expensive device but very cool... you just don't want that toothed belt to break!

Garrett V-series sound cool, but might be a tad big if they're designed for aeroplanes? :oD

--
Olly

Jonny 5 · Post by **Jonny 5** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:33 pm

Mini is a Eaton jobby thats like the ones used on most the Jackson racing kits. Positive displacement twin screw type thats designed to give you boost anywhere. Not sure if he mini is the M45 or M62 varient tho, the M45 would be pretty much out of puff for 200bhp figures.

Steve220 · Post by **Steve220** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:28 pm

i believe its M45, Jonny.

S-works upgrade replaces that with a bigger one

Rizzy · Post by **Rizzy** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:39 pm

ive seen a car with both. its turbo charged and supercharged!

ruderov · Post by **ruderov** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:05 am

can u have both of 1car?

NZ Rover 220 · Post by **NZ Rover 220** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:31 am

The Group B Lancia S4 was both turbo and supercharged.

http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgur ... D%26sa%3DN

Other option is a twin turbo set up. Nice small one for low down and a larger one to take over at the top end. Works pretty well on the B4 Legacy

Gary

sidepants · Post by **sidepants** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:24 pm

NZ Rover 220 wrote:The Group B Lancia S4 was both turbo and supercharged.

http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgur ... D%26sa%3DN

Other option is a twin turbo set up. Nice small one for low down and a larger one to take over at the top end. Works pretty well on the B4 Legacy
Gary

yeah, i've been toying with the principals of twin tubo for a while now, always thought it was a good idea.
however, having seen that Lancia setup, i may switch my attention to making a super-turbo setup

al_roverMG · Post by **al_roverMG** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:58 pm

ruderov wrote:can u have both of 1car?

Yeah the boxy shape micra was available as a "superturbo" model and that had both a supercharger and a small turbo. Is quiet raid for a crap car.