Stick with D16 or not

[stefaclese]

Well if its half stripped already, why not bung in a Rover V8

[edward22]

K series all the way!

You all seem to be forgetting that Baz is a K fanboy like me and as such knows how to make a K series reliable,

hows that . dont drive it lol

[BazR]

K series all the way!

You all seem to be forgetting that Baz is a K fanboy like me and as such knows how to make a K series reliable,

hows that . dont drive it lol

Its working for your B series

[stefaclese]

K series all the way!

You all seem to be forgetting that Baz is a K fanboy like me and as such knows how to make a K series reliable,

hows that . dont drive it lol

Says the person who's B series threw a rod through its bulitpruf block y0!

[edward22]

meh its cold and wet . you might be honored enuf to see my car but only when its dry . dont wanna get it wet etc lol.

[Vard66]

[MarkCoupe]

Madness....

This

Is

Rovertech!



I take barely anyone is endorsing a Rover track car with a Rover engine in it.

I have everything here I need to do this, and the car is already half stripped, its not such a big operation.

I want to liver this car up with RT logo's and all that, but not with a feicing Honda engine in it

Despite the fact the car you were driving was designed mainly by Honda, using Honda chassis/monocoque technicques, with a honda derived gearbox, interior, suspensios, braking platform, gear linkage layout etc etc? Dont cut you nose off to spite your face.

[stefaclese]

You really underestimate how much Rover actually had to do with the R8

[MarkCoupe]

You really underestimate how much Rover actually had to do with the R8

Well, educate me then Stef, i know they had alot to do with Aesthetics, im not saying that honda designed it all. Im saying its lended from Honda engineering.

[stefaclese]

From what I've read it seemed to be a very much joint effort with equal input from both parties, you'd be surprised how Rover engineering went in to the 600/Accord too. Its far too early in the morning to be going in to technical details though

[ttrw2]

Rover spunked their £250million from Thatcher on the K and had nothing left to develop the platform. End of.

The 3-door and Coupe variants were Rover's lead, 5-door and saloon, and the underlying platform is Honda all the way.

Rust-proofing is Rover, that's for sure

[Punx0r]

Rover at least always did their own interiors.

[stefaclese]

Rover and Honda both learned a very hard lesson that collaboration is only successful when both companies concerned know each other’s strengths and weaknesses, and use it to their advantages. With the 800 and Legend, the end result of pride and independent thinking for the sake of it was a pair of cars that, although part of a joint venture, only shared twenty per cent of their parts. What had to happen with the YY and HY programmes was that, whenever the engineers or designers disagreed on something, a decision should be made: go with Honda’s or Rover’s solution. There would be pain initially in this, but pride soon gave way to pragmatism in the decision making process – and the result would be a much smoother development programme.

Because of this change in tactic, the two cars would share no less than eighty per cent of their componentry.

For Honda, this was no disaster because they had long since harboured the ambition to produce a more European focussed car than their previous offerings in the sector, the smaller Civic, larger Accord and the forgettable Honda Quintet. Because of this, Honda deferred to Austin Rover’s expertise in interior packaging, seats, cabin styling, but most significantly British engineers led the suspension tuning, if not the complete design. Honda engineering project leader, Kenzo Suzuki summed up the situation perfectly, “Rather than having separate team of engineers doing related jobs separately in both countries the majority of the work was done at Honda’s facilities in Japan.”

The AR Online R8 article goes in far too much detail to post, but basically shows that it was very much a joint effort with Honda relying on Rovers input an aweful lot.

There seems to be a spate of threads going off topic of late

[stefaclese]

Honda also proposed that the new car would follow their traditional practice of having a very low scuttle and deep windscreen. When the initial clay models were prepared, following Honda’s wishes, the car appeared as being rather top-heavy (a crime the Maestro was guilty of) and as a result of Roy Axe’s persuasive arguments, Honda raised the “shoulder” line of the car to resemble something more classically European. In fact, with regards to styling – inside and out – Rover led the programme: the end result was a British design.

[russ220]

For a trackcar it'd have to be a D16, especially if a D16 is already fitted - only because ive never had issues with any D16 motor, even at 189k miles so it's kinda won my trust lol .
If a K16 was fitted though i'd stick with that rather convert just because i'd rather make use of what ive got. If it became unreliable then yeah i'd sell up and by a D16'd hatch and track that. All the Rover dunlop cars were 216GTi DOHC's.

The D16 dizzy's usually die around 50k miles, mine went at 82k.

Things ive found strangle the D16's performance are sensors in the dizzy failing, these will throw-up an ECU fault code. The other thing is sometimes the coil inside the dizzy, creating a poor spark at high rpm.

My mate had a waterpump changed which is a timing belt off procedure, the mechanic timed the engine wrong and although the car ran fine it lacked any top-end power. It didn't missfire nor give an ECU fault code it was just flat and struggled to hit 95mph in 3rd gear like it used to (on a private road). Turns out the timing was 1 tooth out.

unrelated but the D16 coupe ive got now was pretty flat at the top end and bottom until i fitted a de-cat and open cone filter with CAI in place of the air box; even though the car has a 416GTi stainless cat-back exhaust.


the only things that make the D16 superior in my eyes is the lack of opening the bonnet, lack of oil weeps and if something strange does start to happen the ECU/CEL tells you where to start checking to solve the fault. that siad though, any engine is going to fail it depends on it's past treatment and servicing whether its made in japan, china or africa lol

[ttrw2]

You take everything on that site as gospel Stef? Is a site dedicated to Rovergayers likely to give a balanced opinion on such matters?

[MarkCoupe]

Rovergayers

Is that Rovers equivalent to Honda Fanboys?

[stefaclese]

You take everything on that site as gospel Stef?

Not at all, but they do their research on those articles including speaking to people that were directly involved in the things they write about. I'd take the comments of Rover engineers and designers over Honda fanboy statements anyday, evn wid ur VTAC y0!

Is a site dedicated to Rovergayers likely to give a balanced opinion on such matters?

Far from it, there seems to be more K series and 90's onwards Rover bashing on there than on here

[BazR]

Stall the bailer a second.

I simply asked based on my situation and such , if I should convert to K series, that is all. If the Honda has/had a stronger case which I was aware off, then I was also requesting information on the road to go with it

Mark the coment on the Honda being under the bonnet was light hearted, and to be honest, I wouldnt be annoying myself much by converting, if that was the case. You have taken a legitimate interest in this thread which I am grateful for.

However I dont want this thread to becoming childish, this is not a place for debating why Honda is better than Rover as a whole, or vice versa.

Cheers

[edward22]

You take everything on that site as gospel Stef?

I'd take the comments of Rover engineers and designers over Honda fanboy statements anyday,

i wouldnt, im sure theres a video on youtube some where about the k series design etc where the head technician at rover admits they are of faulty design ....


and baz . just fit a dohc Honda lump they can be picked up for peanuts etc and with very little work your see 140 bhp easy.

[BazR]

Well it is DOHC, so what the output there already 130?

Im not being totally ignorant here, but I know very little of the D series and methods of working at it. I just know I would have less head scratching with a K series in there.

I will welcome the D series with open arms if someone can put me in the right direction for qaulity parts at reasonable monies, ive heard all about the imported cheapness.

And some sort of confirmed 'good guide' would be of benefit.

[edward22]

first good mods to find are a

4-2-1 supersprint manifold. ( dont buy ebay rubbish) 150 pound ish second hand . can be had off any honda forum usally.
get ur ecu socketed and chipped and mapped. pgmfi.org is a place for that kinda stuff . if you where over here etc ud be looking at the cost of a rolling road day and the cost of the mapper. socketing the ecu and chipping etc is cheap . bu the cost of the rom emulator etc is not .


decent cold air intake and exhaust system wouldn't go amiss. just fit aturbo mongose or what ever and have a custom decat made


port match ur intake and exhuast etc. ( you can do this ur self )

crower cams can be had quite cheap etc . seocnd hand about 250 pound . ebay usa is good for these


end of the day comes down to how much money u want to spend ...... and what route u want to go . ie forced induction or nasp etc . there are so many choices.....

[BazR]

Wouldnt mind a Supersprint first, I wanna be able to throw a few quid at it now and again. Wheres the best spot to pick up one of those?

[edward22]

probably a honda forum tbh . hondatech , crxuk . etc etc etc

[BazR]

No1 on here sell them?

[edward22]

not very oftern u may be lucky one may crop up

[stefaclese]

You take everything on that site as gospel Stef?

I'd take the comments of Rover engineers and designers over Honda fanboy statements anyday,

i wouldnt, im sure theres a video on youtube some where about the k series design etc where the head technician at rover admits they are of faulty design ....

That would simply prove my point y0!

[Sheaf]

The SOHC D16 in the coupe felt much better with a decat on. With that and a cone filter the top end was much more lively.

From what I remember Jonny's DOHC D16 coupe made something like 155bhp on exhaust, filter and socketted/remapped ECU. I think grant.archer also had a fairly potent D16 too so is probably worth searching out their specs threads.

[BazR]

Thanks Sheaf, curious as to why its down on power, but I might be able to get a look this weekend and then tinker a bit.

[IrishRover]

Is this now a "how to tune a D16 twincam" thread? There are some previous threads on this topic. Breathing mods give good gains.
Yours should go better than this as it is now, before any tuning.
http://www.rover200.net/videos/rover/21 ... gti885.avi (right click, save as. 19.7MB)

[edward22]

grants dohc was boosted and made 180 bhp ish on 5-7 psi . on std internals and a t25

[edward22]

http://forum.rover-coupe.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23549

theres a dohc honda build being sold .

cams, cam gears etc etc etc .

[BazR]

Is this now a "how to tune a D16 twincam" thread?

Am I not entitled to explore options?

[IrishRover]

D16 tuning is a different topic and needs a thread of its own IMO

[richard moss]

D16 tuning is a different topic and needs a thread of its own IMO

I generally think that the way a thread "drifts" as it develops helps make it interesting. Much the way that a chat in a pub goes off topic over time.